Bike safety in PS- (split thread)

I'm of the school - be a vehicle - obey the vehicle laws.

I think that red light runners should get ticketed, along with cars in the bike lane (I'm looking at you cabbies at the Marriot...).

If I'm not mistaken (probably), there's a law in Iowa that says that cyclists can run a red light if they come to full stop. I'm not sure if that would work in NYC, but it doesn't seem to be a bad idea.

Bike Snob gets nabbed by the Cops!

quig wrote: I'm of the school - be a vehicle - obey the vehicle laws.

I think that red light runners should get ticketed, along with cars in the bike lane (I'm looking at you cabbies at the Marriot...).

If I'm not mistaken (probably), there's a law in Iowa that says that cyclists can run a red light if they come to full stop. I'm not sure if that would work in NYC, but it doesn't seem to be a bad idea.

Actually, from what I remember, you're almost right about the Iowa law, but I think it only pertains to stop signs. I'll have to try to find the actual regulations.

EDIT: Didn't find it yet, but this may be the best set of instructions to drivers on how to drive around bicyclists, I've seen:

From the Iowa Driver's Manual

The Iowa law wouldn't help... if you have to come to a full stop, you might just as well wait for the light to change.

caaahyoko, I cannot argue with you... you're right! (but I'm not necessarily gonna follow your advice).

At a red I slow down or stop, look both ways, and go for it if there isn't a car in sight - same as I do when I'm walking. The day I start sitting at an empty intersection on my bike or on foot and waiting for the light to turn will be the day I start seeing a ticket on the windshield of any of the 30+ cars and delivery trucks I see parked in bike lanes daily. A single ticket - just once - I'd love to see someone actually get a ticket for it & I swear I'll be a good girl from then on out.

RockerGirl77 wrote: At a red I slow down or stop, look both ways, and go for it if there isn't a car in sight - same as I do when I'm walking. The day I start sitting at an empty intersection on my bike or on foot and waiting for the light to turn will be the day I start seeing a ticket on the windshield of any of the 30+ cars and delivery trucks I see parked in bike lanes daily. A single ticket - just once - I'd love to see someone actually get a ticket for it & I swear I'll be a good girl from then on out.

Ok, ok. When its 2am, and I'm in the middle of Red Hook, I'm not going to be a school marm. I will still stop and stare both ways for awhile, though.

My downstairs neighbor was ticketed and towed from in front of our building because during alternate side, he double parked his car and his rear tire was about 3 inches into the bike lane-how about that?

Also, why do you have to see cars getting tickets for you to obey the law? Just because someone else is getting away with it (or, you think they are, you don't know if they pulled the ticket off or if the ticket came after you left), that means it's ok for you to break the law too?

it's like a few months ago when that person on here got a ticket in the park for having an open liquor container, he/she was all upset because they saw other people also drinking in the park and they didn't get tickets. That's outrageous IMO!

What can I say, I'm a bad girl.

LongTimeSloper wrote: My downstairs neighbor was ticketed and towed from in front of our building because during alternate side, he double parked his car and his rear tire was about 3 inches into the bike lane-how about that?

Double parking is illegal whether or not there is a bike lane there. :roll:

Uh huh-but we all know that around here, double parking during alternate side is 'allowed" by the local police precinct since there really is no place else to put your car during that time. So, the towing and ticketing was due to his car being partially in the bike lane, because even though they "allow" the double parking during alternate, you are never allowed to be in the bike lane.

Oh, and, :roll: back at ya.

Caaahyoko- thanks - you made me feel better about my riding habits!

LongTimeSloper wrote: Uh huh-but we all know that around here, double parking during alternate side is 'allowed" by the local police precinct since there really is no place else to put your car during that time. So, the towing and ticketing was due to his car being partially in the bike lane, because even though they "allow" the double parking during alternate, you are never allowed to be in the bike lane.

Oh, and, :roll: back at ya.

Well, if you want to take that argument, since police officers don't regularly ticket bikers rolling through red lights, you could call it "allowed".

Look, break the law if you want. That's your problem. However, if you choose to be sanctimonious on one end and wishy-washy on the other end, and then call out others for doing the same, you must acknowledge your own hypocrisy.

Bloomberg needs to go to Portland, Austin, Amsterdam, and other cities that are BUILT AROUND bicycles. One doesn't need to be a "cyclist" to ride there, because the lanes, trails, etc.., are safely designed incorporating human behavior and habits.
We can argue all day about cars vs bikes vs pedestrians, but at one time or another, we probably use all three.
And if anyone blames the dad for this they should take a moment and go fk themselves. It was an accident, and there is nothing worse than losing a child. I can't imagine his grief because he decided to do something fun and healthy with his son.
When you change the road, you change the people.

Peanuts wrote: Caaahyoko- thanks - you made me feel better about my riding habits!

No, I'm not arguing, just stating details about bike safety. The reporting was no more or less than most of the other stories quoted here. Daver was nitpicking about the details of my comment.

Drunken Revival wrote: To dave and eggcream (and others):

This post really needs to be locked... you two are actually arguing about the details of how an 8 year old was killed. Details, I may add, which are not not fact, but merely the reporting of whatever news outlet you happen to have pulled that from..

Are you kidding me? Have you nothing better to do?

booklaw wrote: The Iowa law wouldn't help... if you have to come to a full stop, you might just as well wait for the light to change.

caaahyoko, I cannot argue with you... you're right! (but I'm not necessarily gonna follow your advice).

I know, I know, but I wanted to put the ideas out there. Just be careful, my friend.

Will do!

caaahyoko wrote: [quote=LongTimeSloper]Uh huh-but we all know that around here, double parking during alternate side is 'allowed" by the local police precinct since there really is no place else to put your car during that time. So, the towing and ticketing was due to his car being partially in the bike lane, because even though they "allow" the double parking during alternate, you are never allowed to be in the bike lane.

Oh, and, :roll: back at ya.

Well, if you want to take that argument, since police officers don't regularly ticket bikers rolling through red lights, you could call it "allowed".

Look, break the law if you want. That's your problem. However, if you choose to be sanctimonious on one end and wishy-washy on the other end, and then call out others for doing the same, you must acknowledge your own hypocrisy.


Who's breaking the law? I don't go through red lights!

I guess we will have to wait for a biker to hit and injure someone while going through a red light before anyone ackowledges that this is a real problem.

If Brooklyn had better public transportation, then we could problably use that as an option, but I bike cause I have to get to work up in Williamsburg/Greenpoint....and taking the subway or the bus would be ridiculous.

I always stop at red lights, follow all the traffic rules, but still everyday it's another truck driver who feels he owns the road, or a a speeding SUV. As I said before, Park Slope is one of the unsafest areas in Brooklyn to ride....it's crowded, roads are too small, and it's full of asshole drivers.

Anyway did you guys read the story about the Hasids and the bike lanes on Wythe and Bedford?

http://gothamist.com/2008/09/12/hasids_say_cyclists_too_sexy_for_bi.php

Yup I read that...but today I read that the bike lanes would remain!!! My reaction when I first read the story was if they're not supposed to look at women they should just turn their heads

Except for the speeding SUV ( as if they're the only car that speeds) I agree with you. So why on earth would anyone want to ride a bike in the city. I was at 2nd ave and Houston. today (because the F train sucks) and the traffic was nuts. We were waiting awhile for a cab and the traffic was crazy with buses honking at pedestrians even though they had the right of way, cabs and cars flying by and here come the bikers with their Whole Food bags with no helmets, no stopping at the red light. Absolute madness.

drummachines wrote:

I always stop at red lights, follow all the traffic rules, but still everyday it's another truck driver who feels he owns the road, or a a speeding SUV. As I said before, Park Slope is one of the unsafest areas in Brooklyn to ride....it's crowded, roads are too small, and it's full of asshole drivers.

I'll have to say that since moving to this city from Seattle a few months ago, I find it _far_ safer to ride a bicycle here than I ever did there, in Portland, or San francisco. Portland and Seattle are supposedly known for being bicycle centric, and Portland does have quite a number of bike only lanes, however the same problem of door-zones, drivers turning through bike lanes, etc, makes bike lanes less attractive than simply riding in the middle of the lane.

The main problems I have with those cities is that you never know if a driver is paying attention or not, and its impossible to predict what they'll do. At least in NY you KNOW that pretty much every driver and pedestrian is bound to cut you off, cross in front of you, run a signal, etc, so you're always on the lookout. For me, this makes more 'sense' than relying on laws or signals to keep me safe: simply watch what you're doing and don't hit anyone.

What I also find interesting is that while bikers/peds/cars do have friction here (as obviously noted in this thread), its usually MUCH more short lived than in the west coast cities i've biked in. I've had drivers in Seattle follow me for miles just to continue yelling at me, and I've seen bikers there purposely hold up traffic because some car cut them off and they want to get revenge. Here, if I have any kind of altercation with a driver, it usually lasts all of 5 seconds: they yell, I yell, I take off, they take off. done.

Maybe I've gotten lucky thus far, but I've been out there pretty much every day for the past 4 months, and besides the lack of decent hills (I get bored of flats), its probably the best biking experience I've had anywhere. I agree it could be made safer for all parties involved, but that's true most places you go ( at least in the states + canada, I can't vouch for anywhere else ). I think more than anything else, people just need to pay attention and look around, regardless of whether the light's red or green.

I didn't mean SUVs were the only cars that speed...it's just that they are way more scary than your average KIA.

andypern wrote: I'll have to say that since moving to this city from Seattle a few months ago, I find it _far_ safer to ride a bicycle here than I ever did there, in Portland, or San francisco. Portland and Seattle are supposedly known for being bicycle centric, and Portland does have quite a number of bike only lanes, however the same problem of door-zones, drivers turning through bike lanes, etc, makes bike lanes less attractive than simply riding in the middle of the lane.

The main problems I have with those cities is that you never know if a driver is paying attention or not, and its impossible to predict what they'll do. At least in NY you KNOW that pretty much every driver and pedestrian is bound to cut you off, cross in front of you, run a signal, etc, so you're always on the lookout. For me, this makes more 'sense' than relying on laws or signals to keep me safe: simply watch what you're doing and don't hit anyone.

What I also find interesting is that while bikers/peds/cars do have friction here (as obviously noted in this thread), its usually MUCH more short lived than in the west coast cities i've biked in. I've had drivers in Seattle follow me for miles just to continue yelling at me, and I've seen bikers there purposely hold up traffic because some car cut them off and they want to get revenge. Here, if I have any kind of altercation with a driver, it usually lasts all of 5 seconds: they yell, I yell, I take off, they take off. done.

Maybe I've gotten lucky thus far, but I've been out there pretty much every day for the past 4 months, and besides the lack of decent hills (I get bored of flats), its probably the best biking experience I've had anywhere. I agree it could be made safer for all parties involved, but that's true most places you go ( at least in the states + canada, I can't vouch for anywhere else ). I think more than anything else, people just need to pay attention and look around, regardless of whether the light's red or green.

Welcome to biking in NY!! We're happy to have you.

I would say that's an accurate summary of biking here. Its not that bad. Most of the people who think its crazy to bike have never done it, or only bike casually. I haven't heard of anyone being followed or harassed for more than a few seconds, like you said.

caaahyoko wrote: I haven't heard of anyone being followed or harassed for more than a few seconds, like you said.

That is one thing that _seriously_ amazed me about life out here, and not just for biking. On the west coast, when fingers and "fuck youse" start flying, fisticuffs and at least brandishing of weapons, if not full on riot seems inevitable. And often is. Out here it seems that on the road a finger or "fuck you" is the equivalent of a "top of the morning" and no one chases you down and kills you or anything.

Weird.

But good!

Well, comparatively.

Yeah, you sure don't see stuff like this happen here:



And never mind this guy, who started punching a cyclist for STOPPING at a yellow light!

Heh, don't get me started about ridiculous drivers on the west coast. I was riding in seattle w/ my 7 y/o on my handlebars (he had a helmet), and some guy decides to pull over and cut me off on a busy street. He then thinks its his moral duty (judging by the plethora of religious paraphernalia on his car and person) to shout and curse at me about how I'm committing 'child abuse' and need to be locked up. He scares the sh** out of my kid, tries to get a transit supervisor to call the police on me, and tries to grab me as I attempt to walk away (by now my kid is in tears).

Luckily for him (and me) , my kid _was_ with me, or else I probably would have done a lot more than push his hand away.

In any case, I'm glad to leave that all behind me, but I laugh when people say that places like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, etc are 'bike friendly'. Although I really do miss the hills....one can only ride over the bridges so many times in a day before it gets boring.

Yikes! That's crazy! He tried to hold you there? :evil:

I know, the hills are non-existant, for the most part. You might want to try upper manhattan, though! There are some good ones at the top of Central Park, and into Harlem/Washington Heights/Inwood. Fort Tryon park is pretty steep.

What about the Hill of Death in Prospect Park? Always makes me wanna croak. :lame:

If you ride Ocean Parkway to Neptune Avenue, and then make a left on Neptune and take it through Sheepshead Bay (where its name changes to Emmons Avenue) to the bike path which starts at or about Knapp Street (it parallels the Belt Parkway almost all the way to Kennedy Airport), you'll find three pretty steep hills, which, when you go out and back, makes for six out-of-breath experiences. Out and back, it's nearly a 25-mile ride from Prospect Park West and Third Street.