More Sad Behavior
Comments
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Hope you put all this behind you and concentrate on the most important thing
Underhill_MT wrote: the original poster and I are getting married on Saturday
Congratulations and best of luck!jimmyjames wrote:
Hey families fight, neighbors disagree and everyone has a right to their opinion. Here's a hug for you "O"
I guess I'm excluded from the group hug. -
stacey wrote: Hope you put all this behind you and concentrate on the most important thing
Congratulations and best of luck!
[quote=Underhill_MT]the original poster and I are getting married on Saturday
Thank you!
It's an all-Brooklyn affair. The next 4 days are going to drag on and on. Saturday can't come soon enough. -
jimmyjames wrote: This is the reason he gave for not reporting the crime.
I suspect no one is really mad. Neighbors disagree and bicker. its OK.
"And I certainly don't want the cops to start looking suspiciously at every black man in our neighborhood just out for a stroll... This is a diverse neighborhood, and I hope it stays that way."
I find this a pretty offensive, naive and patronizing viewpoint/action and not likely to have the intended effect of helping race relations.
Appolline, hope your feelings weren't hurt too much, I guess there's more people like you on the message board, rather than like me, and I'm sure the outpouring of support you've received will make up for my comment.
I guess I'm excluded from the group hug.
For the record this is the first time I've posted on any message board for a number of years and probably the last. I'm really surprised nobody else thought I was making a valid point.
Peace out
I'll hug you when I see you.
H -
jimmyjames,
There is some overlap in our comments if you read my other post. I responded to the same thing in the OP's post that you did. I said it wasn't really helpful to any innocent young black men on the street that night to be guarding them against police harassment. I just don't think it is inherently racist. It may indicate some doubt in the efficacy of the police, but not racism on the part of the OP. It also didn't sound like it was the OPs primary motive for not immediately calling the cops.
FWIW, from his account of his call to the cops today, the OP may be correct in assuming the police would be less than sensitive to him as the victim. No wonder violent crime goes under reported. -
tajmb wrote:
I think the cops gave him hell because he did not report it the moment it happened. If he did, they may have had a chance to apprehend the perp at that moment.
FWIW, from his account of his call to the cops today, the OP may be correct in assuming the police would be less than sensitive to him as the victim. No wonder violent crime goes under reported. -
Apolline, what a horrible, terrifying, deeply visceral experience! So glad you are okay. Thanks for posting this story. Yeah, these Brooklynian boards bicker a lot like any dysfunctional family, but the fact remains that we all benefit from the telling.
Thanks for doing the right thing a reporting this to the precinct after you regained your wits and self-composure. It's true you may not even be able to ID Santa Claus in a lineup, but just the knowing that some dude is out there walking up to folks brandishing his piece may keep everyone, incl. law enforcement, on their toes just a bit more than usual. -
I'm sorry you got scolded for not reporting the crime as quickly as they would have wanted. The same thing happened to me after encounter with the "city inspector".
I'm glad you reported the crime, though, because I have this theory about crime in the neighborhood: it seems, anecdotally, like men actually get picked on more than women, and I think it's because the bad guys don't expect men to report it. I probably seem like the kind of person who'd freak out and call 911 (correct!) and maybe you don't. So defy their expectations! -
Emily wrote: I'm sorry you got scolded for not reporting the crime as quickly as they would have wanted. The same thing happened to me after encounter with the "city inspector".
That is probably true about men not reporting crimes as readily as women. I know that it took me the next day to report getting mugged even though the cops were called by someone right after the incident. Since I felt I couldn't identify I didn't want to make the report. After giving it thought I did go and make the report and was glad that I did because someone turned my wallet into the police and I was able to get back everything that was in my wallet minus the money.
I'm glad you reported the crime, though, because I have this theory about crime in the neighborhood: it seems, anecdotally, like men actually get picked on more than women, and I think it's because the bad guys don't expect men to report it. I probably seem like the kind of person who'd freak out and call 911 (correct!) and maybe you don't. So defy their expectations! -
Because I can never avoid saying my piece, even to someone who probably won't listen...
Yes, he said "And I certainly don't want the cops to start looking suspiciously at every black man in our neighborhood just out for a stroll... This is a diverse neighborhood, and I hope it stays that way."
And that's OK.
If all the police have to go on is the guy's race, there is an increased chance of profiling. Profiling isn't OK. And if the OP is correct in his assessment of his neighborhood being 50% black, that would be a lot of profiling.
Maybe it isn't #1 on the list of "good reasons not to call the cops," but it certainly wasn't racist. He was telling us what thoughts went through his head. There are certainly worse, more damaging things that could have come to mind in this situation. It sounds like if the OP's actions were in any way racially motivated it was in the direction of anti-racism.
I think you're being hyper-sensitive.
OP...I too am glad you decided to report. Even if your description wasn't very thorough, others could be reporting the same person, and what you saw could e of aid. Maybe they saw more detail, and your report could clue them in to his patterns and his MO and all that. So they can get a sense of where he's going next.
Or maybe I have been hitting the Spike CSI marathons a little too hard.
I hope this experience is something you can put behind you.
And, just for levity, have a smiley with a condom on it's head: :safe: -
arches wrote: You should definitely report the incident. At the very least, it strengthens your case for demanding more police presence and highlights Underhill's strange magnetism for gun crimes.
Yes. Yes, please report it. You could save someone from getting hurt. -
I was just at the bodega at St. Johns/Washington and folks were pissed because the cops were out and "hasslin' people."
Good, good, good.
Punks with guns in the area merits more police presence, and judging by the drunken and menacing nature of my fellow bodega patrons, all the better. And, if folks are bent out of shape, they too are on the wrong side of things. Guns and this kind of behavior in any environment are unacceptable by any measure of civilized society.
No argument can be justified otherwise. -
I wonder if the "hasslin' people" includes the police helicopter making the rounds at the moment....always bad news when that thing's around (though i'm glad to have it)....ugh.
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ParadeRest wrote: Yes, mopes shoot themselves all the time. If somebody is shoot in the foot or thigh, chances are pretty good that it was a self inflicted wound.
You know, I used to think that the crime hysteria on this blog wasn't good for anything except scaring my wife. But now here's these extra cops, well outside the Impact Zone.
As for the police car sitting on the corner. It is placed there (and at other locations in the area) to provide a higly visible presence. That corner sitting on the corner with it's lights on is a more visible deterent to crime than is a foot cop. To prove my point, there were 6 other cops on foot
that you didn't notice, nor did your potential robber.
The robberies and assaults on the western part of the pct have decreased in the last few weeks. This could be part of the normal ebb and flow of crime but the police dept has devoted significant resources to the area including those fixed posts, footposts, a robbery auto, and on certain days an additional 5 cars from Brooklyn North Task Force.
So I've changed my mind. Prospect Heights is, I think, the neighborhood most obsessed with crime. You'll notice that PH started the mugging map and post to it more than any other neighborhood. Crown Heights, Fort Greene, etc. etc. have had weeks to catch up, but still all the dots are in PH. T bet PH has more 311 callings too.
Squeaky wheel gets the most cops... -
In response to the little side conversation on the "gun in the pants" question that popped up right before that fun little racial imbroglio...
During my HS years there was a group of fellow students engaged in a series of high profile armed robberies...7-11's, a local restaurant, that sort of thing. They pulled off something like 20 of these heists before one fateful evening...when one of the merry pranksters shot themselves in the crouch. In his apparent haste as he jumped into the getaway car he pulled the trigger as he was putting his gun into his waistband, a la our bodega friend here. Ethan lost a testicle in the bargain and eventually spent over 7 years in prison. It was hard to get getaway. So, to answer your question, yes, bits do get blasted. -
Vandy_Vigilante wrote: In response to the little side conversation on the "gun in the pants" question that popped up right before that fun little racial imbroglio...
Ouch.
During my HS years there was a group of fellow students engaged in a series of high profile armed robberies...7-11's, a local restaurant, that sort of thing. They pulled off something like 20 of these heists before one fateful evening...when one of the merry pranksters shot themselves in the crouch. In his apparent haste as he jumped into the getaway car he pulled the trigger as he was putting his gun into his waistband, a la our bodega friend here. Ethan lost a testicle in the bargain and eventually spent over 7 years in prison. It was hard to get getaway. So, to answer your question, yes, bits do get blasted.
Ouch ouch...
Owwwww.. -
brooklynboy3 wrote: [quote=Vandy_Vigilante]In response to the little side conversation on the "gun in the pants" question that popped up right before that fun little racial imbroglio...
Ouch.
During my HS years there was a group of fellow students engaged in a series of high profile armed robberies...7-11's, a local restaurant, that sort of thing. They pulled off something like 20 of these heists before one fateful evening...when one of the merry pranksters shot themselves in the crouch. In his apparent haste as he jumped into the getaway car he pulled the trigger as he was putting his gun into his waistband, a la our bodega friend here. Ethan lost a testicle in the bargain and eventually spent over 7 years in prison. It was hard to get getaway. So, to answer your question, yes, bits do get blasted.
Ouch ouch...
Owwwww..
A couple more examples:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/jul/14/ukguns
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15737511/
And the best, this one include a video with surveillance cam footage of the actual deed, yes, you can watch it for yourself...
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/15051234/detail.html -
^for some reason, this is one of the things my mother made a point to warn me against. every time someone on tv would stick a gun in his pants, she'd tell me again what a terrible idea that was.
she also made sure to tell me the best way to stab someone.
sometimes i wonder about mama. -
I find it quite interesting that the rationale for not reporting this Crime is not to increase racial tensions and incidents of racial profiling. Do you think if this scenario would've been played out with a White perpetrator the OP poster wouldn't have reported it, due to not wanting white people to be harassed unneccesarily. The fact is, that a Crime occured period. The Race of the perpetrator is irrelevant. I remember having this discussion last year in which shots were fired and people didnt want to call the Police because the perpetrator was Black and didn't want innocent people to get stopped by the responding Police. Propsect Heights saw a spike in Robberies in the end of 2007, so in response, a greater Police presenece was sent to the area to try to curb the problem. The reality is, that the Police need the Communities help. Which means being a good witness if a Crime occurs, being a cooperative complainant if you are a victim of a Crime and also being a good neighbor/citizen if you see a Crime occur. All too often people don't want to get involved and justify their lack of involvement in these situations. A lot of these situations involve fear and intimidation, like making a 6 foot guy run for his life. The fact of the matter is, that these incidents will continue to occur, if the Community and the Police don't stand together with a common goal of making the neighborhood safer for all.
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Subject: Public Safety Forum
Reminder: there will be a forum next Monday evening to discuss many of the issues referred to in previous posts/replies. Representatives of the 77th precinct will be there. Please attend.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Board's 8
Police and Public Safety Committee
invites you to attend a
Public Safety Forum for Businesses
on
Monday, April 28, 2008
6:30 P.M. – 8:00 P.M.
Location: The Usual
637 Vanderbilt Avenue
(Between Prospect Place and St. Marks Ave.)
We will discuss how the business community, residents, police and the community board can work together to control crime and foster public safety.
All are welcome to attend.
For more information please feel free to contact Community Board 8 at 718-467-5574
or Shalawn Langhorne, Committee Chair and Jesse Hamilton, Committee Co-Chair -
I agree with jimmyjames, meredithb, and KWAC. I think if the perpetrator had been a white male, the OP would have readily reported the crime. I remember a while back, another poster on this board witnessed a young black male breaking car windows, yet neglected to report it, citing fears of racial profiling.
I also find it odd that the OP did not report the crime, then insinuated that the squad car in plain sight was not helping to fight crime in the area. How can cops fight crimes that they don't know exist?
Still, the important thing is that no one was hurt (at least physically) and the crime was ultimately reported. I can only hope that the upstanding citizens complaining about being "hassled" decide to take up residence elsewhere. -
Jack Krohn wrote: I also find it odd that the OP did not report the crime, then insinuated that the squad car in plain sight was not helping to fight crime in the area. How can cops fight crimes that they don't know exist?
I still don't understand what those cars are doing there. Like, really? if some low life feels comfortable enough to show a gun to someone a short block away from a parked - with lights flashing - police car then that police car is not really all that intimidating, is it?
I've only once seen a cop standing outside of the car watching folks walk by. every other time I've walked by one of these things I can't even tell if there's someone inside from the glare from the lights. it makes me wonder if they're similar to the annoying car on the brooklyn bridge "protecting it" from terrorists ... couldn't they just ram the car?
anyway, I'm not trying to say I think that efforts at keeping crime low around me go unnoticed or that I don't appreciate them. I am saying that when the 77th had cops doing foot patrols around the neighborhood and when I see them cruising up and down the streets in the cars are the only times I feel like they might have some impact on my personal - and immediate - safety concerns. -
Not knowing the OP mindset, his actions are his own and are fine. At first he did not want to report the crime. Why? Because maybe since he did not get mugged or hurt and did not have a good description of the perp he felt that it would serve no purpose. That is his right whether anyone else would have done the same thing or not. His reporting of the crime may have helped apprehend the perp and maybe it would have done nothing. Do not fault him for his actions as he had his own reasons, at that time, for not reporting the crime. His perp happened to be Black and he stated that in his post. Do not assume that he would not have done the same thing if the perp was White or Hispanic or that his reasons would not have been the same or just as valid. If you don't think that there was some justifcation for his thoughts, then I don't know what to say since I fully understand what he is talking about.
I for one, am happy that he thought about it and reported it. I also am happy that he did not want innocent people targeted for searches etc., because of this. That does not have to be understandable to anyone else but to him. If someone feels that he was racist for not reporting it, fine. Me, I see him as another human being and I do understand some of the reasons why he did not immediately report it. -
Subject: rant. (feel free to ignore)
OK, I'm taking the bait.
I find it the highest form of hypocrisy when people on this board criticized the OP, and then went so far as to falsely label him a "racist", because he stated the very true fact that a description of a Young Black Male (YBM)wouldn't do anything to catch the criminal in a wonderfully diverse community such as PH.
Why do I see this as stupid hypocrisy? Well, maybe it's because the African American Intellectual Establishment has been telling us for more than a decade about the FACT that racial profiling exists. In articles such as those listed below, we are told about the ineptitude of our law enforcement system, about how black males are picked out indiscriminately just because of the color of their skin, that just being black is enough to get you into a line-up.
Now here we have a citizen who does not want to inflict that on his neighbors... A guy who realizes that without more of a description than "male, black and with a gun", no one will be caught and correctly identified... This guy get's crucified by some uptight, hyper-sensitive posters as being "racist", the word tossed around as if it has no weight.
Well, all I have to say to them is &%#@-off! I'm sick of this can't-win-for-trying racial atmosphere on these boards that's stoked and kept alive by these trolls. They make me ill. I'm just glad that they represent a dying breed of biterness.
For your further reading, check out the following well-written articles and ask yourself: Is it really an act of racism (with all the hate that word implies) to feel you might stir up more trouble for your African American neighbors by reporting this crime?
Harris, David A. “Driving While Black: Racial Profiling on Our Nations Highways.” American Civil Liberties Union Special Report. June 1999/ November 2002
Human Rights Watch. “Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs.”
Muharrar, Mikal. “‘Racial Profiling’ in News Reporting.” Extra! September/October 1998/November 2002. http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1431 -
I think its quite silly that an order to report a Crime you need a detailed description of the perpetrator. The fact is, that a Crime occured, and the perpetrator was black. Do you think the result of him reporting this incident is that all Black men will be stopped by the Police? Thats rediculous! Crimes occur everyday in the City, and are committed by all Races. A vague description of the perpetrator doesnt mean it's open season on Black men by the Police Dept. I don't think the OP is Racist, but his rationale for not reporting the Crime is pretty ignorant. and what does the neighborhood being diverse have to do with anything? In the past several months this Board has been littered with "mugging" threads, once again we have another victim of a Crime, but yet we still have a reluctance to report these incidents. How do people expect the Police to help them, when they won't even report crimes for fear that an innocent person will be stopped by Police as a result?
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King, I agree with you that the OP should have reported the event, and I'm glad that he did. What I angrily responded to late last night was the loosie-goosie use of the label "racist" branded on the OP due to his stated rationale for not reporting it earlier. It may have been a poor decision, but it was in no way a racist decision.
-
Subject: Re: rant. (feel free to ignore)
madman wrote: OK, I'm taking the bait.
I find it the highest form of hypocrisy when people on this board criticized the OP, and then went so far as to falsely label him a "racist", because he stated the very true fact that a description of a Young Black Male (YBM)wouldn't do anything to catch the criminal in a wonderfully diverse community such as PH.
Why do I see this as stupid hypocrisy? Well, maybe it's because the African American Intellectual Establishment has been telling us for more than a decade about the FACT that racial profiling exists. In articles such as those listed below, we are told about the ineptitude of our law enforcement system, about how black males are picked out indiscriminately just because of the color of their skin, that just being black is enough to get you into a line-up.
Now here we have a citizen who does not want to infli
Wowct that on his neighbors... A guy who realizes that without more of a description than "male, black and with a gun", no one will be caught and correctly identified... This guy get's crucified by some uptight, hyper-sensitive posters as being "racist", the word tossed around as if it has no weight.
Well, all I have to say to them is &%#@-off! I'm sick of this can't-win-for-trying racial atmosphere on these boards that's stoked and kept alive by these trolls. They make me ill. I'm just glad that they represent a dying breed of biterness.
For your further reading, check out the following well-written articles and ask yourself: Is it really an act of racism (with all the hate that word implies) to feel you might stir up more trouble for your African American neighbors by reporting this crime?
Wow...
Not easy to be a victim of crime these days.
Perhaps if he were killed, some might have more sympathy.
Ahh welll; there is always tomorrow.
Harris, David A. “Driving While Black: Racial Profiling on Our Nations Highways.” American Civil Liberties Union Special Report. June 1999/ November 2002
Human Rights Watch. “Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs.”
Muharrar, Mikal. “‘Racial Profiling’ in News Reporting.” Extra! September/October 1998/November 2002. http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1431 -
Jack Krohn wrote: I agree with jimmyjames, meredithb, and KWAC. I think if the perpetrator had been a white male, the OP would have readily reported the crime. I remember a while back, another poster on this board witnessed a young black male breaking car windows, yet neglected to report it, citing fears of racial profiling.
Sad response.
I also find it odd that the OP did not report the crime, then insinuated that the squad car in plain sight was not helping to fight crime in the area. How can cops fight crimes that they don't know exist?
Still, the important thing is that no one was hurt (at least physically) and the crime was ultimately reported. I can only hope that the upstanding citizens complaining about being "hassled" decide to take up residence elsewhere.
There are not black people, there are not white people. There are just good people and bad ones.
i would have reported the crime no matter what the color.
Endless rants about racism are destructive.
Time to grow up and see reality. -
Subject: the race issue
I am sorry that you had this mugging experience, Apolline and I am thankful that you have posted your experience so openly on this forum.
I think it is difficult to have an online conversation about race as it is such a sensitive topic and we tend to be more artful in person when we must directly experience someone else's emotional reaction.
In my opinion jimmyjames brings up an important issue bubbling beneath the surface. I believe that everyone is a little racist and often well-meaning people hurt others out of ignorance. I also believe that one needs to be careful in crafting criticism so as not to throw the other side on the defensive, as that can be counterproductive.
My personal reaction to Apolline's logic for not reporting the crime because he didn't have a description of the person beyond "black male" is to say that I have heard other people have the same hesitancy. I can empathize with those thoughts and I think they are quite common feelings.
I, myself, have not been in apolline's "shoes", but I can imagine having a similar thought and for me that thought comes from internalized white guilt. I feel guilty for the many unearned priviledges I have as a white person and for the history of slavery in our country. Of course, I am not responsible for slavery and I did not chose to have the priviledges I enjoy, but the current disparity in educational opportunity and economic status is directly tied to the racial history of our country. What I am getting at is that , FOR ME, and I am not speaking for anyone else, a hesitancy to report that black male robbed me would stem from white guilt. In my mind, crime is often a response to lack of economic opportunity and if I am somehow partially responsible for that lack of economic opportunity that disproportionately affects black people then I don't want to report him because then I will be, in my mind, responsible for racial profiling as well- which feels bad.
My opinion is that white guilt is a stage in some people's development of racial identity and it is something I struggle to move past.
Sorry if all this sounds crazy. I have never posted before. -
Unfortunately, zinniazalea, your plan is flawed. Not reporting a gun crime by a black man is likely to result in the ultimate victimization of another black person with that gun.
If you feel that it's not so bad to victimize a white person, because a white person is "somehow partially responsible for that lack of economic opportunity that disproportionately affects black people"... then you should never report white criminals, because they are FAR more likely to kill a white person and very unlikely to kill a black person.
You should always report black criminals, though, because they are far more likely to kill other black people and much less likely to kill a white person.
Therefore, to protect black people and punish white people: Always report black criminals and never report white criminals.
Of course, if you hold the radical belief that nobody, regardless of race, deserves to be a victim... then you should report all crimes by anyone of any race.
(Statistics follow, if you're interested:
"While African Americans comprise 12% of the U.S. population, 45% of all murder victims in 2002 were African American, 91% of whom were killed by African Americans. Nationally, homicide is the leading cause of death for black men and second leading cause of death for black women ages 15-24." Source: Black on Black Crime Coalition
Between 1976 and 2005,
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Source: US Department of Justice) -
We have too many guns on our streets. If we didn't have any guns on our streets, cops would not have any excuses to use excessive force against us.
Howdy, Stranger!
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