Race on DH (again)
Comments
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JAH please give me a description of Jack Krohn's ethnicity so I can now be hostile to anyone of the same ethinicity. It's the only fair thing to do.
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JAH wrote: on a whole other note, why do you have a small child with a cigarette as your avatar?
I find it rather striking. It is part of a series by Mary Ellen Mark.While Mary Ellen Mark's photographs don't probe the imposture of the American dream, they do expose it by unveiling the other side of the picture.
http://www.maryellenmark.com/frames/photopoche.html (thx jarvis for link)
The American dream borders on the pathetic here. Poverty and distress mingle with the glitter.
-snip-
The abandoned, the prostitutes, the alienated, the gigolos, the bodybuilders are strewn throughout photographs that paint a fascinating composite portrait of a limping, disenchanted America.
It's all about the pathetic American dream.
And presents. Presents. -
JAH wrote: [quote=Jack Krohn]I have to agree with plucky. These kids are probably not the type to take school seriously. Most of them will likely be in the custody of NYS inside of 10 years. Hey, if that helps to make the neighborhood a more liveable place, so be it. Tax dollars well spent, IMO.
*ahem*
Ahem meaning that you find this statement to be not nice? Or racist? Or what? -
didn't Bill Cosby say some racist stuff about blacks? isn't he black?
...or is he white identified?
...how about that Secretary of State ....Condelleza Rice. Does she represent? Colin Powell?
How large does a "group" have to be before it is allowed to have more than one view?
Is the present "white group" in prospect heights large enough to have more than one view? How many more are needed? -
daver wrote:
all of the above and it is a clear example of something only one type of person would write.
Ahem meaning that you find this statement to be not nice? Or racist? Or what?
i find your avatar highly offensive and in enormously bad taste btw. -
whynot_31 wrote: didn't Bill Cosby say some racist stuff about blacks? isn't he black?
oh please you so far off track its pathetic. all of those people are Black and Black identified. Your small minded assumptions and misconstruings are pathetic and laughable. I never said anything about only one view. Try again.
...or is he white identified?
...how about that Secretary of State ....Condelleza Rice. Does she represent? Colin Powell?
How large does a "group" have to be before it is allowed to have more than one view?
Is "white group" is large enough to have more than one view? How many more are needed? -
JAH please give me a description of Jack Krohn's ethnicity so I can now be hostile to anyone of the same ethinicity. It's the only fair thing to do.
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I can't mind-read like JAH can so I don't know who to be hostile to. It's confusing.
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silverager wrote: JAH please give me a description of Jack Krohn's ethnicity so I can now be hostile to anyone of the same ethinicity. It's the only fair thing to do.
You don't get it. You are the minority in most of Brooklyn. My block has a whopping 4 white people on it. If someone makes a post about our block we know its one of them. Most of the other blocks around have a similar number of whites. How do we know its one of them? Cause we would never write shit like that plain and simple. Get it now? I also find it pathetically amusing that some of you think your posts don't ooze whiteness LMFAO!!! Why would you even care unless you are ashamed of who you are? You are white. Get used to it. -
ok, I clearly need JAh's help figuring out these mysterious "white identified" characters.
You state they are not white, yet hold white views.
...but you correctly state that blacks do not share a common view.
Does the mysterious white group hold a common view? Do other groups share a common view?
Who are these horrible/wonderful people who can somehow betray their own race or color simply by holding different views? How can one assume the identity and views of another group, if said other group does not even agree on a common view?
I'm a white guy, but I'd like to try out this whole black identified thing you mention. ...but, because blacks are a diverse group, it seems as if I will have the luxury of not having to change my views at all. In fact, I can have no opinion on most matters. ...I wonder if I've been black identifed my whole life, secretly holding the views of a black guy we've never met.
I've always wanted to be Black indentified. If you are right, I can do it without any work.
Likewise, it seems pretty easy to be white identified. ...if whites have no common views, maybe JAH's views are actually that of a white person. If so, he might have the confusion mentioned above.
...or maybe "white identified" is the dumbest term I've heard in a long time. ...and JAH needs a smaller paint brush. -
whynot_31 wrote: ok, I clearly need JAh's help figuring out these mysterious "white identified" characters you cite.
http://www.mulatto.org
You state they are not white, yet hold white views.
...but you correctly state that blacks do not share a common view.
Do whites hold a common view? Do other groups share a common view?
Who are these people who can somehow betray their own race or color simply by holding different views? How can one assume the identity and views of another group, if said other group does not even have a common view?
I'm a white guy, but I'd like to try out this whole black identified thing you mention. ...but, because blacks are a diverse group, it seems as if I will not have to change my views at all. In fact, I can have no opinion on most matters. Maybe I've been black identifed my whole life, secretly holding the views of a black guy we've never met.
I've always wanted to be Black indentified. If you are right, I can do it without any work.
Likewise, it seems pretty easy to one is white identified. ...if whites have no common views, maybe JAH's views are that off a white person.
...or maybe "white identified" is the dumbest term I've heard in a long time.
go there and find a whole heap of white identified half Black people that want nothing to do with anything they deem as Black.
look at this crazy lady's essay too:
http://books.google.com/books?id=UjXFano997UC&pg=PA8&lpg=PA8&dq=white+identified+mulattoes&source=web&ots=DiSTbQYQz4&sig=EP3lTJjoTay_-K5bZNfK8LMMwLk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result
you are obviously quite sheltered. -
JAH wrote: [quote=silverager]JAH please give me a description of Jack Krohn's ethnicity so I can now be hostile to anyone of the same ethinicity. It's the only fair thing to do.
You don't get it. You are the minority in most of Brooklyn. My block has a whopping 4 white people on it. If someone makes a post about our block we know its one of them. Most of the other blocks around have a similar number of whites. How do we know its one of them? Cause we would never write shit like that plain and simple. Get it now? I also find it pathetically amusing that some of you think your posts don't ooze whiteness LMFAO!!! Why would you even care unless you are ashamed of who you are? You are white. Get used to it.
Please explain what oozing whiteness is. Is there such a thing as oozing blackness? How do you type something like that and not realize how racist you are?
Also are you writing from 1988? Where is there a block around PH with only 4 white people on it? The neighborhood looks pretty diversified to me. But then I don't have the obsession with basing my opinions of people on what color they happen to be like you, so maybe you see things differently from the rest of us.
Once again you make sweeping statements about how all blacks or all whites would react or post in different situations. Free your mind, let some of the hate go. The world is a better place when you do that. -
Candicissima wrote: So, how about those kids and/or police on Underhill?
I am getting the impression that JAH is assuming that the children in question are black simply because they are causing trouble. I personally find that assumption VERY offensive and doubt that it will be wothwhile to engage such a blatant racist in any discussion regarding them. It takes a certain kind of person to make that assumption, you know. -
JAH wrote: [quote=Candicissima]So, how about those kids and/or police on Underhill?
about that, St John's and Underhill has ALWAYS been one of the WORST blocks in Brooklyn. ALWAYS. There always have been and always will be bad kids there. Bad adults too. Lincoln is a block away. So? I mean is this really a newsworthy thing?
This post just oozes whiteness. How dare you say that about such an innocent little block? -
silverager wrote:
I never said a thing about all of anyone. Certain posts are painfully obviously white posts just like yours. Thats all. Only white people can be racist btw as you are the only ones trying to maintain superiority. None of the rest of us can be racist as we never had superiority in the first place. Look up the definition of racism. White people are the only people who try to impose their ways upon everyone else. Instead of moving into other peoples neighborhoods and blending in, you move in and TAKE OVER and force others to submit to your ways and use your allies the pigs to help you. Good day to you. I am done with you.
Please explain what oozing whiteness is. Is there such a thing as oozing blackness? How do you type something like that and not realize how racist you are?
Also are you writing from 1988? Where is there a block around PH with only 4 white people on it? The neighborhood looks pretty diversified to me. But then I don't have the obsession with basing my opinions of people on what color they happen to be like you, so maybe you see things differently from the rest of us.
Once again you make sweeping statements about how all blacks or all whites would react or post in different situations. Free your mind, let some of the hate go. The world is a better place when you do that. -
daver wrote: [quote=Candicissima]So, how about those kids and/or police on Underhill?
I am getting the impression that JAH is assuming that the children in question are black simply because they are causing trouble. I personally find that assumption VERY offensive and doubt that it will be wothwhile to engage such a blatant racist in any discussion regarding them. It takes a certain kind of person to make that assumption, you know.
So theres nothing but white and Black huh Daver?
I KNOW that block very well for decades. Don't even try it. How the fuck you get Black out of my post I don't know.
Looks like you the racist if you interperet bad kids and bad adults to mean Black. Shame on you and shame on your sig.
Yep I hate you people and so does everyone else and they were dead on right about you. -
JAH wrote: [quote=silverager]
I never said a thing about all of anyone. Certain posts are painfully obviously white posts just like yours. Thats all. Only white people can be racist btw as you are the only ones trying to maintain superiority. None of the rest of us can be racist as we never had superiority in the first place. Look up the definition of racism. White people are the only people who try to impose their ways upon everyone else. Instead of moving into other peoples neighborhoods and blending in, you move in and TAKE OVER and force others to submit to your ways and use your allies the pigs to help you. Good day to you. I am done with you.
Please explain what oozing whiteness is. Is there such a thing as oozing blackness? How do you type something like that and not realize how racist you are?
Also are you writing from 1988? Where is there a block around PH with only 4 white people on it? The neighborhood looks pretty diversified to me. But then I don't have the obsession with basing my opinions of people on what color they happen to be like you, so maybe you see things differently from the rest of us.
Once again you make sweeping statements about how all blacks or all whites would react or post in different situations. Free your mind, let some of the hate go. The world is a better place when you do that.
*head asplodes* -
the block is indeed innocent. The houses and pavement (and even the cable box) are accused of no crimes.
BTW, silverager, I take offense at you thinking I ooze whiteness. As stated above, I am a white guy who (as of 4:00 today) now claims to be black identified. Remember, I identify with a black person I'm now searching for, one who holds the same views as mine.
So far Colin Powell, Bill Cosby and Condelleza Rice are not a match for me, but I'm going to keep looking. -
Didn't we already have several lengthy debates that concluded that everyone has been given an equal opportunity to be racist? ...that ignorant fools (aka racists, or if we want to split hairs "prejustice people" ) can and do exist in all colors, neighborhoods and shades?
...JAH claims to be not white, so he's is claiming that he is beyond reproach: That he somehow can't be racist.
Damn, why didn't I become a Black identifier earlier? I could have been making thought provoking posts about groups of people in my neighborhood and world, and then claim the posts are not racist/prejustice because I don't have the power to be racist because I am part of an oppressed group.
But, even if I wanted to hold on tightly to my brand new identity as a "Black Indentifier who has yet to find someone who holds my views", I fear I would not be safe.
I fear that my posts will be judged by my fellow bloggers ...that I am responsible for what I write, that the defination of racist (like all words in any language) is ultimately created by the majority ...not some marginalized Afro-centric academics who are on under-resourced campaigns to change the popular definition.
I fear that my peers will see thru my confused identity as a Black Indentifier and -regardless of my color- realize that I hold my own views ...that I am unable to speak for even my own race, color, neighborhood, or block. ...muchless that of a group I am not a part. I fear I will look silly for claiming that I am able to speak on behalf of a larger group. I hereby give up my short lived identity as a Black Indentifier. ...it was fun though, and I might bring it back if it suits me.
Here's today's wisdom:
1. No group has a unified viewpoint or experience. Being that you can't have a group of one, this makes generalizations difficult. For example, I can't find anyone who agrees with me most of the time, so there's no way I'd expect anyone to be able to find an entire group of people that agree with each other most of the time.
When I look closer, I find that the members of any established group don't agree on much. For example, pet lovers (what ever lovers) might agree they love pets/whatever, but after that, its falls apart. For example, the building I live in has spent months trying to figure out what color to paint the hallway; I can't imagine this would change if we were of the same race.
If you ever do find a group of people you completely agree with, it is a good time to examine cancelling your membership; Chances are everyone else is just acting like they agree with you. If you are part of a group that rewards exclusive obedience, or questions your loyalty when you dare think on your own, it is definately time to wonder if there is a larger world out there.
Today's examples of terms that reward exclusive obedience and/or question group loyalty: "white indentifier" "wigger" "black indentifier".
P.S. I can't wait until school starts again! -
whynot_31 wrote: I am a white guy who (as of 4:00 today) now claims to be black identified.
oh ok so you are a wigger then. good luck to you. -
JAH wrote: I KNOW that block very well for decades. Don't even try it. How the fuck you get Black out of my post I don't know.
It is so sad to me to see a fellow neighbor so filled with hate. I don't give up though and I wish peace and happiness upon your triumphant return to the country of NUNYA. In the meantime, I will caution you to cultivate awareness of your misplaced hostilities, and offer that if this internet board causes you such strain and difficulty, you may find greater peace in avoiding it.
Looks like you the racist if you interperet bad kids and bad adults to mean Black. Shame on you and shame on your sig.
Yep I hate you people and so does everyone else and they were dead on right about you.
I'm thinking of you brother, and I feel your pain as if it were my own. Remember that you are not alone in this world or even this neighborhood. We walk with you. -
MOD NOTE:
i've split this discussion off of the st johns/underhill thread. while i was doing so, JAH posted again. i'll quote his/her post below for the sake of continuity:JAH wrote:
DEFINING RACISM
The following definitions, provided by educator Louise Derman-Sparks, may be helpful in gaining a better understanding of why prejudice and racism are not synonymous:
PREJUDICE: belief in stereotypes
BIGOTRY: belief in White supremacy
RACISM: attitude, action, or way of life whose outcome oppresses people of color and benefits White people, regardless of stated intent.
WHITE PRIVILEGE: the consequences of historical institutionalized racism; the benefits that Whites receive (economic, social, cultural, political).
(Source: Derman-Sparks, Louise, and Carol Brunson Phillips. Teaching/Learning Anti-Racism: A Developmental Approach. New York: Teachers College, Columbia University, 1997, page 74.)
THE MYTH OF REVERSE RACISM
REVERSE RACISM?
"Why is it so difficult for many white folks to understand that racism is oppressive not because white folks have prejudicial feelings about blacks, but because it is a system that promotes domination and subjugation? The prejudicial feelings some blacks may express about whites are in no way linked to a system of domination the affords us any power to coercively control the lives and well-being of white folks. That needs to be understood" (bell hooks 1995: 154).
SEPARATISM?
"Concurrently, all social manifestations of black separatism are often seen by whites as a sign of anti-white racism, when they usually represent an attempt by black people to construct places of political sanctuary where we can escape, if only for a time, white domination" (bell hooks 1995: p155).
BLAMING THE VICTIM
“People who have not thought about or refuse to acknowledge this imbalance of power/privilege often want to talk about the racism of people of color. But then, that is one of the ways racism is able to continue to function. You look for someone to blame and you blame the victim, who will nine times out of ten accept the blame out of habit” (Gloria Yamato 2001: p93).
References:
hooks, bell. Killing Rage: Ending Racism. New York: Henry Holt and Company, 1995.
Yamoto, Gloria. "Something About the Subject Makes it Hard to Name" in in Race, Class, and Gender: An Anthology, 4th Edition. by Margaret L. Andersen, and Patricia Hill Collins, eds. Belmont, CA: Wadsworth, 2001.
Brought to you by Claremont SCRAP – Students Challenging Racism and (White) Privilege. www.canopyweb.com/racism -
... and this from whynot_31.
whynot_31 wrote:
I concur with Daver (wait can I say "concur" and still be black identified?).
For my part, I will make it my mission to find some confused black person who holds my views. As my my luck will likely have it, this person may be merely a black person who is white identifed.
If I am able to find a black person who holds my views, but is merely a white identified black person, can I then claim to be black identified?
Wouldn't each of us cancel the other out? I'm so confused. Help me JAH.
P.S. Watch out for the cable box, it has tar on it. -
ONE MORE MOD NOTE:
Please do cut out the name-calling and mass-generalizations, all around.
Thank you.
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This thread is funny.
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JAH wrote: [quote=daver]
on a whole other note, why do you have a small child with a cigarette as your avatar?
Intonation.
Oh Lord...
(I love the photo and the rest of Mary Ellen Marks' work...but that's probably because I'm white) -
JAH wrote: your allies the pigs
The two black cops in their patrol car who cited me for drinking a microbrew on the stoop of the building of which I'm the board prez clearly weren't my allies. I must have missed some sort conspiratorial organizing meeting between the NYPD and white infiltraitors. If someone knows the time and place of the next one, please PM me.
Anyway...I don't hold it against them. The ticket was silly, in my opinion, but they've got a job to do. -
JAH wrote: FYI, kids and many other people read this site. This site has a very bad reputation. People mock you and loathe you for the things that are written here. Just so you know...
The internet is DANGEROUS!
Lock your...er...wi-fi? -
JAH wrote: [quote=daver]
on a whole other note, why do you have a small child with a cigarette as your avatar?
Intonation.
Its a pretty famous photograph by documentary photographer Mary Ellen Mark. Its not staged or anything.
Howdy, Stranger!
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