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seeking news stories on recent anti-muslim hate crime in NYC - Page 2 — Brooklynian

seeking news stories on recent anti-muslim hate crime in NYC



  • [note: The following post appears somewhat out of context because of the thread split]

    I'd even say that once one is aware that the mind makes generalizations out of human nature, it is the obligation of the person to constantly work to ensure that they make such generalizations as rarely as possible.

    ....I believe parents and elementary teachers begin this process of teaching.

    In otherwords, I have a pretty hard time not blaming adults for their views as well.

    ...especially when I know they have been confronted on them yet still hold on to them.

    Because I believe that most people have a functioning mind, I believe that very few adults are ignorant soley as a result of circumstance ...hence my belief that we are more likely to see, "willful ignorance".

    "Willful ignorance", of course, is a complete load of crap.

    To make a long story short: If someone is ignorant and they claim to be a "thinking adult", I am fascinated by them. I wonder whether they are really isolated, confused, delusional, or actually -in fact- a child.

    I have high standards.
  • Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.

    OP here.

    Before clarifying my long-lost intent with this posting, since the conversation has digressed I would like to say that for the first time ever, I find myself essentially aligned with MHA - to wit: The planners of the community center Constitutionally and otherwise have a right to build it wherever they want, but if they didn't predict strong opposition to this location, they were idiots. I'm amazed it became such a big national issue, but then it's summer and we all love big meaningless stories in the summer.

    Thing is, however unreasonable, unfair, shitty, racist, ignorant, Glenn Beckian and and all other things the virulent protests against the building are, the fact that there's at least some kind of hue and cry isn't surprising. Unfair, but not a shocker. And it could have been avoided. I support the planners' right to build their center there, but if I'd been the planner and my sole goal was to create a Muslim-oriented 92nd Street Y type of institution to benefit both Muslims and others, I would have picked a less freighted spot.

    Now to my point. I myself may be a radical leftist, but that's not what was going on with this post. The organization I work for is the most prominent tracker of hate crimes in the United States, and we were being asked by a major TV news organization to confirm that there had been only the 2 that I mentioned. Knowing that I'm recently from NYC, my boss asked if I had any sources that might be able to confirm or disconfirm this notion. I wasn't looking to inflate any numbers. I was looking to make sure that when my boss appeared on TV as an expert, he didn't miss anything prominent OR inflate numbers.

    Part of what my organization found is that Muslims are such a small percentage of the US population that it's not especially meaningful to include them in statistics comparing them to other groups that are targets of hate crimes in this country. It'd more useful to compare hate crimes against them from year to year and see if there's a change. Such as in the helpful chart in Krowonhill's 1st page post. Gotta keep that chart updated and make sure it reflects reality, not media predictions re violence and hate crimes against Muslims.

    A hate crime, btw, is 1st a crime and 2nd motivated by hate. Lots of racist stuff doesn't fall within hate crime. But for instance if you beat someone up because you don't like them, that's a crime. If you beat them up because they're Muslim, that's a hate crime. The crime was the assault. The "hate" part is about hating Muslims and if it can be proven to be your motivation, it can amplify your sentence.

    Legally, protests and racist statements, however awful, are free speech, not hate crimes unless they incite violence/mayhem in the very specific way that something like shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater (which is also not protected free speech) does.

    To reiterate: This post was about confirming facts, not helping either the left or the right make some kind of political point. If your organization is the source of facts, you want to make sure it has the facts. Even if someone on this board had mentioned some hate crime we hadn't heard of, I would have carefully confirmed it via multiple sources before feeling confident I could relay it to my boss as fact.

    In conclusion, yeah, I hope Glenn Beck falls hard from grace and John Stewart is canonized, but those hopes had zero to do with the question I asked in this post.
  • Mod note, all discussion specifically focused on the downtown community center has been moved here.

    Any such future comments will be moved too.

  • Above, on Sept 1, I wrote:
    So far we have one drunk, white, mentally ill guy in a taxi.

    ...and a pack of presumably white, drinking teenagers in their cars
    (the article does not mention their race)

    ...the Usual Suspects?

    Not as bad as I feared.
    A few weeks have passed, and I remain pleased that there has seemingly been no huge increase in crimes directly specifically against Muslims (i.e. "hate crimes").

    [Like it always does, the media has seemingly moved on to warning us about other impending threats to carefree bliss. (Note to OP: Please bring back Killer bees, or sharks. Everyone loves to fear sharks.

    Make them attack people of one specific religion or ethnicity in order to fulfill your employer's mission)]

    ...this time elapse has again confirmed my belief that very few people are the violent variety, and that most of us are either able to control our anger toward Muslims OR don't have any such hatred toward them. (I'm an optimist, I hope for the latter).

    That said....

    Dare I try to move the discussion to non-violent forms ways in which one can "clearly express objection to Islam" and/or "keep them in their place"?

    This article by Farah Akbar seems to argue that very middle class, non-violent folks are presently expressing themselves through the selective and creative interpretation of things like town zoning and construction codes.

    It certainly wouldn't be the first time. Anyone remember the phrase Urban Renewal? ....or the decades of battles in Yonkers? ....gotta love Yonkers!].

    Anyway, before I veer off topic, here is the link to the short article I would like folks to read: Rights/20100914/3/3362

    (5 minutes passes)

    So, now that you have read it, should we expand our conversation beyond what so far has largely been the purview of impluse-driven teenagers and drunk mentally ill guys?

    Or, should we efficiently and and conveniently dismiss the author of this article as interpreting the facts to meet her preconceived agenda?

    While no one is arguing that creative Urban Planning meets the definition of Hate Crimes, do the events and issues she describes have a place in this thread? .

    ...Surely someone can effectively hate Muslims and effectively "keep them in their place" without being violent, or committing a crime.

    I argue that such a discussion would respect the mod's bright red request that we restrict our posting "specifically focused on the downtown community center" to elsewhere.

    ....and if we are going to remain on topic, we could (like the article's author, Farah Akbar) limit our discussion to instances against Muslims within, say, 50 miles of Grand Army Plaza.

    ...that way us city folks couldn't be accused of thinking we are holier than thou, and the OP could might get to see an expansion of what could be considered HATE, even though we couldn't help her out by being violent criminals.

    ...her deadline has likely long passed anyway.
  • The majority of Americans are Christians.

    The majority of shark attacks in American waters involve Americans.

    Therefore sharks must be Muslim terrorists, right?
  • yeah, an interesting court decision for sure

  • This recent incident seems to involve an 11 and 13 year old on Staten Island, beating up a 12 year old muslim kid.

    Based on the reporting, I think it would be pretty hard for it not be a hate crime. But I'm pretty sure the Hate Crime law is not applicable to folks who can not be tried as adults.

    So, while it may meets our definition of a Hate Crime, it doesn't meet New York State's.

    Someone else can argue for an expansion of the types of crimes and suspects that are covered NYS Hate Crime Laws; I'll just sit here and try to figure out how our legal system performs in these situations.