Schools

Does district 17 ever do events like this?

Whynot, I just had "fun with language" in your post there.  Sometimes I wish you wouldn't make me do brain exercises to get to your point.  I was under the impression that PS9 in Prospect Heights had the problem that too many parents were too professional and the number of students on the lunch program went down to the degree that they lost federal funding.  So doesn't there come a point where schools are looking for involved parents, who bring some "other" race in whichever direction is lacking, who are also poor enough to qualify for lunches?

Tateinbk, your frustrations are part of the reason that some opt to go the charter school route or to private schools. Those schools make it very clear in their marketing materials what the school philosophy is, when prospective parents/students can come and see the school, what it takes to get into the school including test dates, lottery dates, auditions, etc. and what kind of school they are running (special programs, extracurriculars, etc.).

The public schools have crappy websites, and parents have to rely on Inside Schools or Great Schools or the like to try to figure out exactly what a school culture is like. Even those sites sometimes have dated information. This lack of information is used to keep exclusive schools exclusive (enrollment is driven by word of mouth between "people like us") and crappy schools from being identified as crappy until its too late (usually after a kid is sitting in a classroom). Add on top of that the byzantine rules around districting and exemptions and its impossible for families to navigate the system without significant work and resources. Poor, uneducated families end up with poorly educated kids and middle and upper middle class families seem to produce kids that are all "gifted" "talented" or otherwise tracked out of the madness.

I think a lot of the "lack of marketing" by D-17 schools stems from administrators not believing that they can make a good enough pitch to get better off parents to enroll their children there.

The D-17 administrators (after all) are better off than most of the students' parents, and usually send their own children to better schools.

As a result of occupying the same social class as the administrators, they freely share their reasons with me.

I live in D-17, taught in the Bronx and Manhattan. I never met a teacher who sent their child to a local school. I cannot blame them. Even if the schools do "beef" up there marketing, parents will still look to Insideschools.org, etc. to see test scores and look up school demographics. These factors may be the hinging point on whether or not they send there kids to a local school versus private.

I know that a lot of families are buying in "cheaper" areas like Crown Heights and PLG so they can send their children to private schools. The schools in Northern Crown Heights might go the route of PS 9, but it's going to take a few years for this happen as many of the children in the area are under the of three. Another option parents are getting into is homeschooling. There is an entire homeschooling community, and it's growing, here in Brooklyn.

As for Southern Crown Heights, there don't seem to be that many families are moving into the apartment buildings, it's mainly working "kids." Again, if there are, they send the children to private schools. I cannot say I'd send my child to our local school.

So, people in the know -- is there any kind of District 17 or CEC 17 listserv or website or Yahoo!Group or anything that one can join in order to be aware of events, meetings, etc? I have tried emailing the CEC, with no response, and was hoping someone else could point me in the right direction. Many thanks to anyone who can help me out.

WhyNot, looking at that District Map...wow! District 17 is huge.

If you're looking for information about particular public schools, just stop in or make an appointment with the principal. I did this at 316 and they practically rolled out the red carpet.

No...

To the larger question of diversifying schools - we could have a fun debate, I am sure, about how it should work in a perfect world, but the reality is that if parents feel their local school isn't serving their local community well, there have to be serious efforts made by both parents outside the school and the existing school community.

I understand the frustration of the quoted Q at Parkside blogger, but I'm not sure it's fair. I don't know anything about the particular school, and agree there's not a good excuse for a local school not trying to reach out to local parents, or to be responsive to them. But when it comes to marketing and social media and building its outreach around professional parents, the fact is that DOE schools simply cannot compete with charters and private schools that have marketing budgets and paid media directors. There's no money in the budget for that and, until this year at least, the DOE has been working directly *against* pre-existing local public schools, and trying to drive families to charters and other new schools.

As far as I know, the only marketing budget or social media "help" at a district school comes from parents - directly, through fundraising to pay for website hosting and through the skills to design and keep up a website. That's how the website at PS 9 was started - the concept was developed tightly with the administration, but the initial work was almost all parents. Our parent coordinator does some updating, but otherwise it is done by parents.

PS 705 seems like they have a lot of good things happening, but it's not really fair to compare other Crown Heights schools to it. PS 705 was a brand new school just last year, located in a very gentrified area of northwest Crown Heights, with all the opportunities presented by a new school, including better funding (the DOE funds new schools at a higher level), new leadership that is motivated to fill a school, new teaching staff and (it must be said), no legacy of poor test scores listed on InsideSchools, no children in older grades that tend to scare off affluent/gentrified families. (Not saying it's right, just have had plenty of playground conversations to have a pretty good idea of how the psychology of school choice works.) That is not to take anything away from 705 - it's still a high poverty school and I'm sure it still is taking a lot of hard work on the part of the thoughtful and dedicated parents working to try to make PS 705 a diverse, well-functioning school.

But it is much different to take a school filled with families, some of whom have been sending kids there for a decade, and convince the leadership there that it needs to spend scarce resources to make the school more attractive (marketing-wise and the actual day-to-day of school operations) to a newly gentrified neighborhood or group of families. That's just hard work and there aren't really any structural incentives or supports in place for a principal to do that, except, perhaps, if the school's enrollment is dropping). It's a catch-22: what can a school do that has no affluent parents and/or no parents with marketing skills to attract these very parents? I get it, nobody wants to be "the first" whatever at a public school, and nobody is saying you have a moral obligation to do that. But in order to have real, structural changes or improvements made, there simply have to be some people with the time, money, and regular commitment willing to roll up their sleeves. If no affluent/skilled parent ever wants to be the first, most won't agree to be the first - why be surprised (or angry?) that your local school isn't already what you wish it were? What you are really doing is blaming other more affluent parents for not doing what you, yourself, are not willing to do.

That said, it can be done and is being done at many schools in Brooklyn where the leadership is willing to work hard and is receptive, where there are parents ready to put in the time and money, and other conditions are right. Some of these schools were under discussion at the diversity forum whynot posted. Google Park Slope Collegiate and read the new York magazine article about it. It's possible to do - but it does, however, take some families willing to actually do the work ... and send their kids there.

xlizellx, if you feel there is a moral obligation to send your children to their local school, don't you then have that same obligation to teach within your district?

Rather than expect a single family to integrate (by class, race, educational philosophy, etc), I think it is more reasonable that a cadre of parents will form at a local private PreK and then enroll their kids.

It seems to be a common method throughout the country.

...they are then accused of imposing their wishes on others, and using "privilege".

Whynot, if you have connections to the administration to the schools in that area, perhaps getting word to them that there are interested and curious parents who need some help or invitations to see the schools.  I know how difficult it can be to have big tours of parents through the buildings with school is in session.  The approaching summer might be a great time to simply lead parents through a tour of the facilities to just start with.  Then no students' classes are disrupted and the door to communication between parents and administration is opened. 

Tateinbk-
In my view, the local school staff can't and/or won't successfully lead this "change".

The change will come from a cadre of parents.

Perhaps said cadre won't stem from ONE pre-school's parents but from many preschools, playgrounds, and places that have a children's menu.

Perhaps they could meet each other by using a local website.

Sprucenik, would you mind sharing what school your child got into or what other you looked into? Thanks!