Hudson Companies Residential Development on Flatbush Ave. in PLG — Brooklynian
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Hudson Companies Residential Development on Flatbush Ave. in PLG

bobmarvinbobmarvin
edited 12:53PM in Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens

A friend just forwarded this press release to me:

"Hudson Companies Closes on Residential ‘Game Changer’ for Prospect Lefferts Gardens, Brooklyn

Hudson Companies has closed on a development site at 626 Flatbush Avenue in the Prospect Lefferts Gardens section of Brooklyn, where the developer plans to build a 23-story, 254-unit rental building one block east of Prospect Park, The Commercial Observer has learned.

(Credit: Flickriver, wallyg)

Ariel Property Advisors arranged the $11 million sale of the development site, which the buyer entered into contract on last year, and brokers who arranged the sale are calling it a “game changer” for the neighborhood.

“Prospect Lefferts Gardens is one of the lesser-developed areas that has the most potential because there is a subway is right there, the architecture is beautiful, and access to the park is easy,” Jonathan Berman of Ariel Property Advisors, who exclusively represented the buyer and seller with Shimon Shkury, Michael Tortorici, and Victor Sozio, told The Commercial Observer.

The property features 100 feet of frontage on Flatbush Avenue and a roughly 52,265-square-foot rear parking lot. It is located near the Prospect Park Zoo, Brooklyn Botanic Garden, and two blocks from the B, Q and S subway lines. Hudson Companies has agreed to set aside 20 percent of the units for affordable housing.

“There are so many things going in this neighborhood that the time is right for development,” Mr. Berman said. “Prices in the area for development sites are going up and larger developments are being picked up by developers.”

The deal had to overcome several major hurdles before closing, including resolving an easement issue and relocating several commercial tenants, one of which has already moved, and two others that will relocate in the coming weeks.

In response to demand in underdeveloped areas of Brooklyn, Ariel Property Advisors is expanding its Brooklyn operation and has added additional brokers to its sales team.

“Exciting things are happening in Brooklyn, as rental and condo values are quickly catching up with Manhattan,” said Shimon Shkury, president of the firm, in a statement".

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Comments

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    Boom.

    Together with the development surrounding the King's theater, this should change the business mix above Dorchester Ave.....

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    The developers announcement is being picked up by Brownstoner and lots of other places.

    Signs all point to a huge, market rate development

    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/06/hudson-properties-flatbush-development-is-a-go/#disqus_thread

  • thecameraladythecameralady

    Twenty percent of the apartments allegedly will be set aside as "affordable". I'll believe it when I see it.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    ^Indeed^

    Even if we assume that 20% (51) of the units meet whatever definition of affordable they end up with (80% AMI?), these folks will be carefully screened.

    Hence, we are looking at 203 (254 * .8) new, nicely appointed units that will likely house people who presently live above area's median income. The local businesses will respond by changing their products and services.

    ...and some units on lower floors, with less nice finishes for those who were lucky enough to win a lottery. These folks will influence the businesses to a lesser degree.

  • ehgeeehgee

    When they get built, you'll see the affordable apartments here:

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/apartment/lotteries.shtml

    Some are reasonable (like the $1000 2 bedroom in Wililamsburg for those making ~$40k, though in very tight bands), some are hilarious (like the $2400 2 bedroom in Bed-Stuy for those making $84-$134k).

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    renderings

    http://marvelarchitects.com/project/626flatbush/

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    Dec 18

    It seems some of its neighbors do not understand the term "as of right"

    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/12/group-says-it-plans-to-sue-over-planned-high-rise-development-in-prospect-lefferts-gardens/?ic_source=ic-featured-frontpage-top

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    "As of right" might not actually be that if the Housing Finance Agency really failed to follow its own procedures.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    I doubt those against the development can make that the developer's problem, but it should be fun to watch.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    And, we are off and running!

    A group is stating this luxury tower should not be allowed in the area, until other concerns are addressed.

    Like "Equality"

    http://equalityforflatbush.tumblr.com/post/70496070577/brenda-edwards-resident-of-chester-court-who-is

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    I know nothing about his "Equality for Flatbush" organization, but the stated goals of the Prospect Park East Network, which organized the pictured press conference, are to modify this project, rather than to stop development. I was there and I'm absolutely certain about this.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    That is certainly a more quantifiable goal.

    Needless to say, the apartments on the higher floors are the most valuable, and the reason that the developer will fight for their ability to build as per the zoning code, not community preferences.

    REBNY would be crazy to let a community group diminish the profitability of a site anywhere in the city, and DeBlasio probably won't show his intentions this early in his term.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    I'm sad to say you're very likely right, but we can hope.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    My favorite is when the residents of tall buildings that were opposed "by the community", join the fight against subsequent tall buildings because they don't want THIER views blocked.

    The bright side is once this building is built, "the community" will have even more people opposed to the next one.

    Redux.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    Nevertheless, IF this building gets built to the full planned height it will strengthen the push for contextual zoning, similar to what already exists in the neighborhoods on all other sides of Prospect Park, which will prevent other towers like this one.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    As more tall buildings are built, they become the context, as opposed to the walk ups built pre-1929.

    The present zoning code allows for the city to grow in terms of people, height, and tax receipts.

    The new building will blend in with Tivoli towers, built in 1974, and (like it) will eventually be featured on the Brooklyn Historical Society site: http://brooklynhistory.org/blog/2010/02/05/tivoli-towers-in-crown-heights/

    http://www.emporis.com/building/tivolitowers-newyorkcity-ny-usa

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    Tivoli Towers is much to far away [about 3/4 mile] to "blend" with this building. In any case, contextual zoning for PLG wouldn't reduce population density, since it would allow shorter buildings with a larger base. Allowable FAR would be about the same

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    Whenever a new tall building is built on a busy strip of low rise buildings, it could be considered "out of context".

    Some like the new buildings, others don't.

    In part, we have regulations and laws so developers don't have to comply with the whims of the public.

    If HFA broke one of those regulations, I wish those who wish to "modify" this project luck. If they merely wish to try to spot zone this parcel to suit their whim of a quaint neighborhood of people they believe to be like themselves, I hope the experience is very expensive, tedious, time consuming and results in defeat.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    "If they merely wish to try to spot zone this parcel "

    Huh?

    To the best of my knowledge no one has ever suggested anything like that, but, by all means, keep setting up straw men if that's what you enjoy :-)

  • ehgeeehgee

    Look out! Allowing high rises in PLG might mean it ends up like Prospect Park West.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    That would be unfortunate; many people move here to get away from Park Slope.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    Many people moved to Park Slope to get away from Manhattan. I am sensing a pattern.

    Why should PLG have the ability to decide what kinds of development it wants, when other communities are subject to the existing zoning (ie don't have such options)?

    Or, should we just allow every community to interpret the zoning code (ie spot zone thru the courts, rather than the established processes)?

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    AFAIK those PLG residents seeking re-zoning merely want zoning similar to what already exists in every other neighborhood surrounding Prospect Park.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    They seem to want new zoning before this building is built. ...despite the process established to get an area rezoned.

    psst, this process doesn't involve suing the HFA.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    Entirely separate processes, one short, the other long-term. One doesn't preclude the other.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    One precludes the other if you want the court to take you seriously.

    ...unless you are proposing that the "pro-contextual" residents of PLG should be able to get to write an EIS that carries more weight than the zoning code.

    For some reason I think that practice would be a lot like spot zoning, and create chaos in the real estate market.

    Don't you?

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    No, not at all; we'll just have to disagree.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    I should add that while many of my neighbors are adamantly opposed to a building this high and I do agree that it would be desirable for the height to be reduced, I am personally much more concerned with contextual zoning, as a long-term issue.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    Most of Brooklyn's major avenues are zoned to allow for tall buildings: 4th Avenue, Eastern Parkway, Prospect Park West, Atlantic Avenue, Flatbush Avenue.

    When the first modern, tall buildings are/were built along these avenues, they looked out of context.

    Now, they are simply part of Brooklyn.

    On these avenues, context isn't a long term issue, it is an always changing issue.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    True, but the buildings on 4th Avenue and [with the sad exception of the Richard Meier monstrosity] Eastern Parkway aren't visible from Prospect Park. Also, unlike 4th Avenue, most tall buildings on Eastern Parkway were built a generation or two before there was much concern with architectural context.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    There isn't much of a concern with architectural context now.

    While the zoning code for a given area often takes into account what is already there, it allows a great deal of flexibility.

    ...Flatbush avenue is not landmarked, so the Landmarks Preservation Commission has no jurisdiction.

    ...HFA only has to do an EIS when the impacts are believed to be substantial; merely violating the neighbors' subjective definition of what is "contextual" doesn't warrant one.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    The pending law suit, which deals with the lack of a proper EIS, and the campaign for contextual zoning address different issues. To the best of my knowledge no one has suggested landmarking Flatbush Avenue, even though the Prospect-Lefferts Gardens Historic District is across the street from this proposed building, the Ocean on the Park Historic District and Prospect Park are across the subway cut, to the rear and, to the north, Chester Court will very likely be eventually designated as either an extension to the existing PLG HD, or a separate district.

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    ...as you are aware, being near a historic district is not the same as being IN one.

    Also, while historic districts are popular, they certainly are not without costs. We can (and should) only pay for so many.

    You are correct, the EIS is a different issue. The HFA didn't "forget" to create one, they didn't create one for a reason: They didn't perceive any impact from this project that warranted one.

    As stated above, I'd be surprised if the judge disagreed with the HFA.

    The judge will likely conclude that the zoning code effectively addresses the concerns of "the community", and that there are very good reasons that changing the zoning code is time consuming, tedious and arduous.

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

    I think we've beaten this issue to death whynot; merry Xmas! :-)

  • whynot_31whynot_31

    Likewise. Happy Holidays!

  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited June 2014
    A hearing on whether the complaint against HFA has any merit will be held on Thursday, Jan 23rd.Click "see original post" for details on the position of those seeking "Contextual Zoning"

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=1541468051247516447&postID=4265056286635649071
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    No word yet re: whether the complaint was found to have any merit.Here's the promo website from the developerhttp://www.hudsoninc.com/626-flatbush-avenue/
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    Demolition of the existing structure on the site is well underway:  http://theqatparkside.blogspot.com/2014/02/about-time-that-building-came-down-i.html

    The architecture and engineering geeks over at skyscraper.com have been watching this site for a long time:http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=203934   

    Click thru for photos, etc
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    Meanwhile, people against the building believe that government should step in to prevent the developer from building so high, even though the height of the build is within the zoning code.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/develop-don-t-destroy-prospect-lefferts-gardens
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    Press: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/realestate/prospect-lefferts-gardens-is-on-the-map.html?referrer=
  • whynot_31whynot_31


    10154365_10203401144249562_912860114_n

    Even though he won't be able to stop this development, Eric Adam's can't lose by showing up at this event.

    I do love grandstanding.

  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    edited March 2014
    I didn't know about the building coming to Fenimore Street. Is this area going to turn into a mini-Manhattan?

    "We are the only neighborhood bordering the park with no building height limits."

    Wow, I didn't know that. I wonder why. I also wonder whether elected officials will be prompted to propose legislation to address that issue.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    From the Skyscraper.com link above:

     
    "NIMBYs are really pathetic.
    The tower is as-of-right, so there's nothing the Borough President can do. They can appeal to the Pope or Obama while they're at it.


    And that rendering is obviously massively exaggerated. The building will look nothing like that from the park.

    Then they top off the idiocy by calling for 80-foot height limits on major Brooklyn thoroughfares (basically 7 floors), and then simultaneously complain about high prices and rising rents. Well, gee, I'm sure calling for no new development will really drop those home prices..."
  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    From the Skyscraper.com link above:

     

    Then they top off the idiocy by calling for 80-foot height limits on major Brooklyn thoroughfares (basically 7 floors), and then simultaneously complain about high prices and rising rents. Well, gee, I'm sure calling for no new development will really drop those home prices..."
    It's not about calling for no "new" development. People are complaining about the scale of the development. no? There's a difference. 
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    Agreed.

    I posted the quote mostly to show how far apart the two sides are.

    For simplicity, we could call one side the "as of right builders" and the other side "contextualists".

    It seems the "As Of Right Builders" are proceeding as the law allows, while the "Contextualists" want people to respond to their emotion; They want the process to be subjective and based on democracy (populism?).

    Here's the thing, the two sides are never going to get along.   That's why these discussions are held in anticipation of future development, and result in zoning.

    ....this is sharp contrast to discussions that occur in response to planned development.   We are presently witnessing the latter. 
  • mugofmead111mugofmead111


    10154365_10203401144249562_912860114_n

    Even though he won't be able to stop this development, Eric Adam's can't lose by showing up at this event.

    I do love grandstanding.

    I attended this event tonight. I won't attempt to sum up the entire meeting (as I expect the Q at Parkside to do that more eloquently soon). I will say that it was very well-attended (standing room only). There were a people from a variety of racial, ethnic, and economic backgrounds there, and it seems that many of them feel threatened on some level by the upcoming developments.

    There was some level of grandstanding, but part of the political process would be to allow people to speak out. 

    The politicians were very honest that there really isn't much that can be done about this particular development. The best course of action seems to push forward with rezoning (downzoning) to prevent something like that from happening in the future.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    As you are likely aware, property owners usually object to down zoning because they perceive it as diminishing the value of their asset.

    Under Bloomberg, upzoning was the norm. He shot a little to high with the proposed rezoning of midtown, but generally won....

    https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=hmNEU9-VM6LW2gXR84D4BQ&q=bloomberg+upzoning&oq=bloomberg+upzoning&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.3...4438.15512.0.16506.19.18.0.3.3.2.1828.10174.2-5j1j3j6j1j1j1.18.0....0...1c.1.39.mobile-gws-hp..8.11.3693.3.nVxStB-irio

    If DeBlasio were to become powerful, I imagine him being able to stop the trend of upzoning, but I can't envision him being able to enact down zoning.

    Population growth which involves more wealthy people is rarely successfully fought, or even constrained.
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    Note that the Prospect Park East Network the organizers of this meeting [along with PLGNA, LMA, and FDC] are looking for contextual zoning, NOT downzoning. This would limit the height, but not the density of new buildings. They could achieve the same volume by covering a larger portion of the lot, something possible, but not required under present zoning. All they're asking for is zoning similar to what currently exists on the other sides of Prospect Park,
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    And what are they offering in return?

    ....why should the developer (and other affected property owners) come to the table?
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    I suspect they will not do so, unless they think the law suit is likely to succeed. Personally, I'm far more concerned about the larger issue of contextual zoning than about this one project, although many of my neighbors would disagree.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    In the eyes of people who own property, contextual zoning is the same thing as down zoning; It limits the options a developer has, and therefore a property's value.

    IE It quacks like a duck, but the "locals" are insisting it isn't one....

    It is a good time to be a lawyer; they are certain to win.
  • dmiami2dmiami2
    Zoning changes will take a long time.  While that process is ongoing I agree with whynot and wonder what the idea of "contextual" will take on.   The R7 zoned areas include this new project, Tivoli Towers and Ebbets field.  Why would a similar development to those be considered out of context?   BTW, i heard the spice factory recently changed hands and if development happens there (along with Seacrest) then single family homes will be out of context. 

    If PPEN is not opposed to density then is the goal of PPEN to simply reduce the height of new buildings around the park?
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    Here is the zoning for the area:

    imageNote the /// indicates that there is a C1-3 overlay.
    Map created by Ben Dodd for CB9.    Data:   NYC Dept of Planning

    According to the flyer above, PPEN seems to be concerned about the building height not only because it could scene from the park, but also because it will be filled with luxury tenants who will cause a ripple effect of increasing costs. 

    Other flyers want 30% of the units to be "affordable", which basically kills the projects profitability (aka viability) given the current level of support available from the state and city for such purposes.

    Why should property owners bear the brunt of social goals?


  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014




    Screen shot 2014-04-08 at 10.38.55 PM

    The building we are talking about will be on the west side of Flatbush near Fenimore St.     The building in the above photo is already demolished and construction is underway.

  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    edited April 2014
    Zoning changes will take a long time.  While that process is ongoing I agree with whynot and wonder what the idea of "contextual" will take on.   The R7 zoned areas include this new project, Tivoli Towers and Ebbets field.  Why would a similar development to those be considered out of context?   BTW, i heard the spice factory recently changed hands and if development happens there (along with Seacrest) then single family homes will be out of context. 

    If PPEN is not opposed to density then is the goal of PPEN to simply reduce the height of new buildings around the park?
    According to the woman who made the presentation at last night's town hall, there was a request to change the zoning placed in 2008. The city allegedly hasn't gotten around to it yet. Now people want some action to be taken on this request so that future developments like 626 Flatbuish are curtailed.

    Ebbets Field is not as close to Prospect Park as the 626 Flatbush site, and neither is Tivoli Towers. By the way, the Brooklyn Botanic Garden (BBG)  is in between Prospect Park and both of those two high rise developments.

    Tivoli Towers is one block away from BBG (between Franklin and Washington Avenues). The grounds for Ebbets Field are located 1.5 blocks east of Franklin. Patio Gardens seems to be more fitting in terms of an example of something that is "out of scale" in that immediate area.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    All of that is true, and has contributed to making R7-1 zoned areas with no height restrictions being very valuable.   

    -The Spice Factory site on Franklin Avenue
    -The Sea Crest Linen site
    -The site for sale for $10M by the shuttle tracks
  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    edited April 2014

    According to the flyer above, PPEN seems to be concerned about the building height not only because it could scene from the park, but also because it will be filled with luxury tenants who will cause a ripple effect of increasing costs. 

    Other flyers want 30% of the units to be "affordable", which basically kills the projects profitability (aka viability) given the current level of support available from the state and city for such purposes.

    Why should property owners bear the brunt of social goals?




    Here's another question: The property was zone that way for years; why are people paying attention     now and starting to develop in this manner now?

    The developers of 626 Flatbush have accepted some government funding to have the project constructed. Don't expect citizens not to want to have some say. ;) It would be different if the funding were entirely from private sources, no? 
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited April 2014
    Answer to question 1: Developers are developing now because the numbers now work. 

    Answer to question 2: The developers have met the established mandates of the public funding sources; They do not have to also meet the arbitrary demands of the public. They are building this "as of right". 

     Here's the zoning for the area above Empire ....which seems to only load upside down image
  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    edited April 2014
    One more point:
    Why should property owners bear the brunt of social goals? - See more at: http://www.brooklynian.com/discussion/comment/546814#Comment_546814

    Once upon a time there were incentives for those developers who participated in afforable housing programs like Mitchell-Lama. #justsaying
  • dmiami2dmiami2
    edited April 2014
    According to the woman who made the presentation at last night's town hall, there was a request to change the zoning placed in 2008. The city allegedly hasn't gotten around to it yet. Now people want some action to be taken on this request so that future developments like 626 Flatbuish are curtailed.

    Ebbets Field is not as close to Prospect Park as the 626 Flatbush site, and neither is Tivoli Towers. By the way, the Brooklyn Botanic Garden (BBG)  is in between Prospect Park and both of those two high rise developments.

    Tivoli Towers is one block away from BBG (between Franklin and Washington Avenues). The grounds for Ebbets Field are located 1.5 blocks east of Franklin. Patio Gardens seems to be more fitting in terms of an example of something that is "out of scale" in that immediate area.
    Tivoli Towers is as close to the BBG as this new development is to the park. Ebbetts field is close enough to be included when evaluating what "contextual" means (IMO). I still think the major beef here is with it's proximity to the park. For example, if this development were on Empire east of Bedford, would it be getting so much attention? I doubt it....
  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    edited April 2014
    Tivoli Towers is as close to the BBG as this new development is to the park.
    I disagree. 626 Flatbush is 0.5 blocks from the park. If you were to exit on Lincoln Road, you can see the park down the street. Tivoli Towers is one block away, but BBG is in the middle. 
     Ebbetts field is close enough to be included when evaluating what "contextual" means (IMO). I still think the major beef here is with it's proximity to the park. For example, if this development were on Empire east of Bedford, would it be getting so much attention? I doubt it....
    You mean, like with the parcel of land discussed here? 
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited May 2014
    Re: Mitchell Lama. Yes, if the right incentives to build affordable housing are provided, it will be built. At the time, Mitchell Lama paid more than market rate housing. ....comparitively few such programs exist today. 

     Re: Contextual. Give it time. Once this and the other developments in the works are built, the context will be large apartment buildings. They have been permitted for decades, but are now again profitable to build.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    The latest flyer by PPEN seems to indicate that they want development to be decided by a democratic process: 


    Development is decidedly not a democratic process once the zoning code has been established.   

    I hope they at least get nice weather on the Saturday vigils that they are planning.   

  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited May 2014
    A similar group is protesting the building for similar reasons:
    From: Coalition Moratorium To Protect Prospect Park [mailto:info@mtopp.org]

    Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:24 PM
    Subject: Reason for Rally on May 24

    Please find attached the info about why we are demonstrating.

    It might be a little long winded, but there is so many things wrong with this building

    it is amazing that it has gone as it has!

    One of most basic issues is to keep affordable neighborhoods affordable. Once you start letting in Luxury housing, this will have a drastic affect upon the existing housing stock, by forcing prices to go up. We are demanding an investigation as to how our tax payer’s money is being spent to remove us from our neighborhood.

    We are also concern about the visual ascetics to the park, with the tall building creating shadows within the park if these buildings are allow to rise.

    A few facts

    a. Hudson Co received a 72 million bond from the State to build this building without conducting a mandatory environmental review on such projects as required by SEQRA.

    b. Hudson Co on their application to receive money from the State, stated there was no community opposition to this planned building.

    c. The building will be 50% taller than any other existing structure surrounding the park, thus you will be able to see it from almost any vantage point in the park!

    d. This building will be ten times taller than the existing structures surrounding it.

    e. This building has almost 100% financing from public funds, and there was 0% community involvement.

    f. 80% of the units are luxury units with the starting rents for a studio at around $1900.

    g. 20% of the units are “moderate or affordable” based upon an average income of around $84,000, where as the Flatbush, Leffarts Garden community has a medium income of around $40,000. Thus the affordable or moderate rates are not affordable or moderate to the people in this community!

    h. The luxury units will be 30% to 40% higher than existing market rents, causing a widespread increase in the rental market and the displacement of an entire community.

    i. The harassment and displacement of tenants has already begun in this community, as evident by a lawsuit filed by the Flatbush Tenant Coalition on April 15, 2014, for discrimination with the aim of displacing tenants.

    j. Flatbush, Lefferts Gardens is the densest populated area in Brooklyn, so why do we need more people?

    k. Flatbush already has an issue with traffic jams, idle cars along Flatbush Ave, to put another 300 to 400 cars in that same area is going to cause serious health related issues for the residents, such as asthma and other lung related diseases. This is why an Environmental study should have been done to avoid negative environmental factors to the community.

    l. An Article 78 lawsuit (to put a temporary stop on an activity) by PPEN (a local community group) was entered into Manhattan Supreme Courts in Dec. 2013 and is still pending! The normal time of completion of this type of lawsuit is 90 days and it is now 120 days and still no decision.

    m. The documents in the court have stated the foundation of this building will be laid by June of 2014 and once that is done, there is no way of stopping this building from being built.

    n. Twice since 2008, community Board 9 requested rezoning to protect our community and City Planning rejected these requests, by stating it was too busy.

    We are demonstrating at Prospect Park West Between Union and President St. on Saturday, May 24 from 10-2pm.
  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    This group has a point with items j and k. 

    The B and Q lines are crowded enough by the time they arrive at Prospect Park during rush hours; How likely is the MTA to run extra trains?

    The construction contributes to traffic bottlenecks on the SB side of Flatbush Avenue.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited May 2014
    One's right to build is not determined by the potential traffic effects.   

    The magical free market is believed to make properties that are a pain to get to less valuable.

    [...pssst, in a few years MTA is likely to try to introduce SBS to Flatbush Ave.]


  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    I suspect I'm going to have way more gray hairs by the time a B41 SBS gets going.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited May 2014
    That's ok, by then the area will be built up so much that the new residents will likely actually support it.

    While we will be the gray hairs complaining that it doesn't stop often enough:   "It doesn't stop in front of my doctor or the pharmacist" 

    Ah, the circle of life.



  • mugofmead111mugofmead111
    @whynot_31: From The Q at Parkside: 

    BREAKING NEWS: Temporary Restraining Order Issued Against 626 Flatbush

  • whynot_31whynot_31
    This should be interesting.

    It is one thing to argue that HFA did not follow its internal procedures and conduct an environmental impact statement.    In that instance, one sues HFA.

    In this case, the plaintiffs seem to be arguing that Hudson can't proceed because an advisory board (aka Community Board) didn't like the project, and Hudson stated to HFA that there was no significant community objection.

    There is always significant community objection to projects....   The entire industry states that there is "none", because the requirement contradicts "as of right".

    One thing is always true:  The lawyers will win.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    I'm now reading that the opponents of the building are trying to kill it by making the city insist that it contain more affordable housing.

    I do wonder if they realize this strategy could backfire.   For example, the developers could say "We will include more affordable units if you allow us a greater FAR."    

    This would mean that the building is higher than 30 stories, and even more "out of context".    

    10417684_674946802572714_2919551036819763121_n
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited June 2014
    Press and commentary:
    http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/06/temporary-restraining-order-halts-cement-work-at-plg-tower-at-626-flatbush/

    Links to stories by NY1 and The Real Deal can also be found in the Brownstoner link
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    In a show of confidence that the lawsuit will fail, the developer continues work at the site.

    ...They are merely refraining from pouring any concrete to abide by the TRO.


  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    Even if the lawsuit succeeds Hudson Companies will be able to build something on this site. None of the opponents question that.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited June 2014
    The opponents seem to feel what the developers can build is up to them.

    Actually, there are lots of rules.
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    I think you've setting up something of a straw man here; the oponants of thia project, as planned, have made it clear that they are NOT opposed to development
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    When I talk to them, they seem to be arguing that Hudson has broken some kind of moral or legal rule.

    When I fail to be convinced, then they say HFA broke a rule....

    Or, that they just want PLG to remain "contextual".

    I just smile and am glad we have judges.
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    Only the most naive opponents believe the first. The last two are quite true; the failure of HFA to follow proper procedures is the basis for the present suite; achieving contextual zoning is a separate long-term goal and (potential) solution.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    If HFA is found to have broken its rules by not doing an EIS, Hudson might have to give back the HFA $.

    However, Hudson can still build without a height limit because that isn't linked to HFA.

    In the present climate, I can't imagine DeBlasio letting a judge nix a development that will help him get toward his quota of affordable units.

    I haven't heard anyone talk about "contextual" with a straight face since his election.
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    "I haven't heard anyone talk about "contextual" with a straight face since his election"

    I have; I guess we talk to different people, hardly a surprise.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    I hang out with Urban Planners.
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    I'll try not to hold that against you :-)
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    They will continue to put forward a guise of caring what the public thinks, while being paid to increase its tax revenue and decrease its expenses.

    No conflict there.
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    Who are "they"?

    Urban Planner? Politicians? me? the project's opponents?
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    In my quote, "They" are Urban Planners.

    However, people who do not have the luxury of being exclusively concerned with aesthetics or votes could be substituted.

    Hey, did you see Bruce got an award from the preservationists?

    http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/city-hall/2014/06/8546446/ratner-award-sparks-intra-preservationist-fight

    Quality entertainment on a Tuesday.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited June 2014
    The developer describes the business of developing:

    http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/meet-developer-626-flatbush-avenue-2014-06-13-143000
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    Also coverage this morning on WNYC's Brian Lehrer show:

  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited June 2014
    The Brooklyn Eagle really gave the developer some spoon fed, easy questions. The article was like reading a brochure.

    Did the developer do equally well on WNYC? (The player won't let me fast forward, and Brian Lehrer's voice annoys me).
  • bobmarvinbobmarvin

  • bobmarvinbobmarvin
    The developer wasn't interviewed and didn't phone in. Although the WNYC phone lines were jammed with callers from PLG there was only time to take one phone call from the neighborhood.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    Then I won't bother to endure listening.
  • dmiami2dmiami2
    They will continue to put forward a guise of caring what the public thinks, while being paid to increase its tax revenue and decrease its expenses.

    No conflict there.
    Hey now. Urban Planners are not taught to do that. Let your buddies speak for themselves.

  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited June 2014
    DCP seems to have provided a preview of the De Blasio adminsitration's approach to rezoning "our" borough:   The East New York recommendations include expansion of manufacturing uses and residential density along major transit corridors.    Side streets would receive contextual infill.

    http://www.sustainablenyct.org/docs/Sustainable Communities ENY Report 3.7.14.pdf

    Do you think it is wise for the opponents of "out of context buildings" to continue to request a rezoning from Dept of City Planning, in light of Flatbush Avenue being a major transit corridor?

    Someone has to bring in the revenue to pay for DeBlasio's spending...    why not Urban Planners?
  • southeastsoutheast

    Judge Lifts Temporary Restraining Order on Construction of PLG Tower

    The judge overseeing the case against the Hudson Companies’ development of a 23-story mixed-use building at 626 Flatbush Avenue in Prospect Lefferts Gardens has lifted the temporary restraining order, saying the plaintiffs “have not demonstrated a likelihood of success on the merits” of the case. The case is still ongoing, but a lengthy written decision said the environmental review that was already conducted was adequate.


  • whynot_31whynot_31
    No surprise there.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    Over the next year, this will slowly rise into the skyline:

    image

    http://m.ny.curbed.com/archives/2014/06/19/judge_lifts_restraining_order_for_prospectlefferts_tower.php
  • EsperanzaEsperanza
    What an eyesore.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    For those that don't like zoning maps, this handy tool shows where high rise buildings could be built, as well as the height of the present buildings.

    http://www.citylab.com/tech/2014/06/a-new-mapping-tool-lets-NYC-residents-see-where-new-development-is-set-to-encroach/373547/

    Developers have been using similar tools for years. The problem has not been that they didn't know where the lots were, but that the economics of constructing such buildings didn't previously make sense.

    Now they do.
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    edited September 2014
    First few stories are in place. About 20 more to go.

    http://newyorkyimby.com/2014/09/construction-update-626-flatbush-avenue.html#
  • whynot_31whynot_31
    image
    From above link
This discussion has been closed.