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Prospective Park Place Pawnshop! - Near Franklin Avenue. - Page 7 — Brooklynian

Prospective Park Place Pawnshop! - Near Franklin Avenue.

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  • Umm...Thanks to MHA for the "Dear Penthouse Forum" letter...

    MHA, you seem to have this notion that having a pawn shop or jewelry store that buys used gold is going to create crime. Your comment, "the white proprietor of an establishment which sells guns with little regulation, and that gun ends up in the hands of a Negro from Panama, who, feeling empowered, shoots another Negro in the leg -- right there near the corner of Franklin and Park Place -- just feet away from your prospective jewelry-electronic store -- and the Negro who gets shot has his femur ruptured and he loses his leg. " is completely invalid. If there was no demand for it, the store wouldn't survive. Thats how a free market works. I sincerely doubt that some crack head will travel very far to pawn some jewelry he stole. Chances are, he's gonna stay in the area. So if you have crackheads in your area, I suggest you focus on the real problem and leave this man to do his business and leav the artist to do his work(which I love, btw). I also find it ironic that you're talking about how the mural will attract people to the location, but here you are drawing attention to it and giving it more exposure. If there was no protest and controversy, the storefront would never have been in the Daily News. The point is that as long as the store-owner is acting within the boundaries of the law, its his right to buy and sell whatever he wants. The fact that some people are offended by it is irrelevant. Your suggestion to boycott his store is moot, since it doesn't seem like you would be a patron of it regardless. Boycotts only work if you're taking business away from them. You're within your right to be offended, but you need to understand that there is no law that says you have a right to expect to never be offended by anything. If you never see anything that offends you, you're not living in a free society. Look at it as a symbol of freedom when you over-react to a mural.

    Also, I think its really funny that you took your own interpretations of the mural and got yourself worked up about them and now are angry because of your own interpretation. As far as I know, Jamie Hef has not issued a statement about the mural. I haven't heard from the artist what his interpretation of his own work is.

  • "So if you have crackheads in your area..." Splooie you SO don't live around here or you wouldn't even have made this comment. I've written many responses about the virtues of the free market. If after reading them you still can write what you have written above, it either says I'm not clear, or the point about the business isn't clear, or you aren't comprehending.

    To give ME a synopsis on freedom of speech after the many screeds I've written here is nothing short of laughably ironic. Dude, believe me, the right to offend is sacrosanct to me...

    My suggestion to boycott the laundromat ISN'T moot because I've often used the laundromat which is in the same structure of the jewelry store, and as I have written above, I chose to no longer wash my funky drawers there. If you were familiar with the argument you would know that the laundromat, the jewelry store and the up and coming Thai food restaurant all pay rent to the same person. The objective is to give none of these people community business until at the least, the mural disappears. So, by those actions business will be taken from 'them', as you put it.

    I actually had a conversation with the artist. I went right up to him told him he is obviously a great artist, but I'm not diggin' the content. He told me that he can understand that opinion that many others walking by have rudely told him their opinions of his mural as well, and that it was the OWNER'S idea to have that mural as designed. So as far as I know, Jamie Hef HAS issued a statement about the mural. Jamie said he was giving the customer what the CUSTOMER wanted. I asked him, "So you mean don't kill the messenger?" and he said, "Yeah, please don't kill the messenger." As far as I know, Jamie still lives, and the mural stands free of mar.

    Believe me dude, I know all about boycotts. I'm able to sit anywhere in a bus because of a family relationship with boycotts. I can even now have a milkshake at Woolworth's too....

  • what exactly is wrong with the mural? i still haven't heard someone articulate a convincing response.

  • Other than it potentially planting a seed in the less than sophisticated criminal mind that getting stacks of money by selling stolen rings, watches, etc. is easier than taking candy from a baby round here and that it is physically located on pawn shop which attracts violent crime in an effort to steal rings, watches, etc. there is nothing wrong with the mural.

  • I may be confused. The laundromat, the (maybe-soon-to-be) Thai place, and the pawn shop all have the same landlord.

    Does that make him the operator of the 3 businesses? I mean, I rent my apartment from a landlord, I don't own the building I live in. But if my landlord also owned a building that had illegal gambling taking place inside of it, I would hope no one would say "Let's not be friends with xlizellx anymore because her landlord made a poor choice about who to rent to".

    As far as I know, the people who work at/run the laundromat have nothing to do with the Pawn Shop people except that they're neighbors. Or is this particular landlord much more hands on than most and actually runs the businesses inside of his buildings as well?

    This is my confusion. If it one person who decided to open up 3 unrelated businesses, then sure - boycott that person (and all of his businesses) to stop the one business you dislike. BUT if three people decided to open up 3 unrelated businesses then I'm unclear how boycotting all three hurts only the one who you disagree with. There seem to be a lot of innocents in this latter situation.

  • xlizellx you are not confused at all. The laundry people have enough on their plate to be overly interested in what the landlord thinks is a good fit for an empty space. All the talk of strategy is silly. The business is in and will live or die as a result of cash flow. There was a couple of reports yesterday about how many people are being hospitalized because of drinking in Greenpoint. This is a category that CH is working toward topping with almost no concern about the number of bars being constructed in the area.All the focus on the pawn shop as public enemy number one is playing into the big picture of no feedback about businesses that open at 4pm and close at 4am with loud impaired patrons that will make dumb drunk decisions on the streets of Crown Hieghts.

  • For any boycott to be successful the cause and effect must be clearly defined to all involved. In this case the cause is a building owner who chooses to rent to a business that threatens the safety of the community, the proposed effect of this choice is the majority of the community banding together and choosing not to spend any of their capital on the building owner's property until the business that threatens their safety is removed. Only the building owner can reverse this lease decision and without financial incentive apparently has no reason to do so.

    The Thai place doesn't even have work permits posted yet and with the amount of press coverage the demonstrations are receiving hopefully the Thai place would also put pressure on the building owner to resolve this situation before moving any further as a result of the proposed boycott, same could be said for any tennant to follow. As far as the laundromat is concerned I don't think it is coincidence that the Pawn Shop signs were originally located on their sublease property or that, as MHA had pointed out in a previous post, the laundry machine prices went up after the original signs came down after the last protest. Even if this deduction is incorrect I would imagine it would not take long for a boycott to cause the laundromat owner to also put pressure on the building owner to kick the new kid off the block ( pawn shop ) to resolve this situation as well.

    What hurts more a Thai place not opening and a laundromat, whose hands aren't completely clean in my opinion, facing a potential temporary financial hit or facing the potential of increased violent crime and or loss of life?

  • Heros often exaggerate the problem they fix, and thier role in fixing it.

    I wish to place my bet on the Thai restaurant opening, the jewelry store opening, and the laundry place and Franklin Ave as a whole living happily ever after.

    ...but please do enjoy trying to rally people against what is simply a legal business that you object to, as well as its landlord.

    I will enjoy the show, and provide commentary.

    ...you might not like the commentary either.

    P.S. In the grand scheme, doesn't a new Thai place cancel out a new Jewelry store? Please don't tell us you got something against Chicken Pad Thai too....

  • I hope the majority of those who also object find the legal potential solution of a boycott more useful than vandalizing the building owners property by throwing a can of paint against the wall, but only time will tell.

  • You're right MHA, I don't live in the area. I just dont think your assertions that the business will attract crackheads to your area. Its merely meeting what it sees as a demand. If there is truly no demand for it, it will fail. But seriously, I wouldn't have known about the store if it wasn't for the daily news article, which wouldn't have been published if nobody protested. So if anything, you're attracting more people to the store. If you look at the artists, fb page, you will see that this is not the first time this baby has appeared in his work. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1168.snc4/151021_174061925955835_174059922622702_494165_3935567_n.jpg

    So, i'm not sure what he told you...but it doesn't seem like he was told "paint a baby on money with a crown"

  • MHA,I don't follow the Mormon church anymore.I like to drink coffee, tea and have a glass of wine.Just wanted to see your response and what a great one it was.It's completely relevant here.Thank you

  • It's worth restating why the pawn shop is offensive to many who live in this neighborhood: a strong correlation is proven between property crimes and the proximity of a pawn shop. This is not conjecture, and a simple internet search supports this statement. For example, from Rutgers Center on Public Security:

    http://www.rutgerscps.org/rtm/UrbanResidentialBurglaryRiskFactors_InsightsBrief_4.pdf

    Communities restrict or outright ban undesired businesses all the time. It's completely legal and it's completely American. I've driven through plenty of towns in Utah where I couldn't get a drink, and, for that matter, spent some years in a filthy rich New England town where I couldn't get one either. I'm certainly up for banning the pawn shop if that will prevent a burglary of my home or a loaded gun to my chest on my walk home. And if current laws don't support a ban on the pawn shop, then I'll join a boycott against it.

    I do wonder during these conversations if participants realize how much regulation actually does impact our communities. Given that reality, it's a triumph of the American creed that rhetoric about the free-market is trotted out as if valid argument.

  • krowonhill, perhaps this is more a "which came first" kind of scenario... Are the pawnshops causing the crime? Or are there pawn shops because of the crime? Also, that article you sent does not give any real statistics or data to back up any of its claims. It simply asserts that proximity to a pawn shop will raise the likelyhood of crime. It also asserts that proximity to a bus stop will raise the crime in an area...should we be boycotting the MTA?

  • Ahhh, BOLDing is back!

  • I chose to post a reference that was brief and had the authority of Rutgers Center on Public Security. A simple internet search will bring up similar information across the internet from law enforcement and academics. (I googled "pawn shops correlation crime" and that did the trick.) There's no debate about this; the correlation is solid. Pawn shops cause crime.

  • No, they don't cause crime...

    Drugs, poverty and desperation cause crime. The very existence of a pawn shop does not make people commit crime. And again, the author of that paper you cited also said that proximity to public transportation creates crime. I have a subway 6 blocks from my house and several bus stops... should I be concerned? Again, if there are no criminals in the area stealing jewelry and electronics from people, there will be no business for the pawn shop... Nobody comes from too far to commit crime. The citizens of the town of Huntington Station, Long Island once went to the police demanding they do something about gang activity in the area. The police stepped up patrols and started arresting gang members. Soon after, the citizens started complaining that their children were being arrested. Who did they think was in the gangs? Who do you think is robbing people in the area? I will bet that its mainly locals.

  • I also want to add that pawn shops are required to photocopy a seller's ID in order to buy anything from them. If anything, its an easy way to find out who stole that bracelet from you.

  • So, we should be against having things near us that are proven to attract criminals?

    Liquor stores

    High schools

    Porn shops

    Check cashing

    Social service agencies

    Homeless shelters

    Drug rehabs

    Housing projects

    Mental health clinics

    Fast food that is open 24 hrs

    Bodegas open 24 hours

    Bars

    Places that sell knives

    Places that sell guns

    ATMs that cause people to have $ that someone else will want

    .....yes, let's outlaw every activity we don't like and that might cause harm.

    Let's assume correlation is the same as causation, and just protest everything.

    Let's not consider the fact that We Buy Gold and Electronics places are located throughout NYC, and instead practice hysteria.

    ...sarcasm.

    PS Keep Fear Alive!

  • NYC.gov statistics for Crown heights show that felonious assaults and burglaries have increased significantly (16.8 and 24.8%, respectively)[16] In 2010, new stats show that Crown Heights homicide rate for the 77th precinct has had a rise from 2009's total of 13 to 16, although the year isn't done yet. Are you going to blame this on pawnshops and bus stops?

  • There also statistically tends to be more crime in areas that are predominantly black or hispanic. You don't see me claiming that black people cause crime. I am smart enough to understand that there are several factors that cause crime. Like I said, usually it has to do more with employment opportunities, availability of hard drugs, public education, healthcare, poverty rates...the list goes on but believe me, pawn shops would be very low on the list.

  • Given how income, wealth and education is distributed in this country, so true, spoolie, so true.

    ...but attempts to ban entire classes of people are rightfully frowned upon in modern society.

    .... I believe people who try to ban things (even things that are genuinely correlated to crime) often believe that, if only they had enough time, authority and resources... They could actually change human nature.

    There are literally We Buy Gold places on almost every middle to low income commercial strip in NYC, yet seemingly we have the lowest crime rates in decades.

    ...and I have a hard time blaming Sam (or his landlord) for creating Detroit's blight.



    (photos of local businesses that respond to the wishes of local customers upon request)

    like Thai.

    ...or soon to be opened brick over pizza

    ....ah, the chicken and the egg. Which comes first?

    Can't we focus on landlords that rent to tenants who deal out of their apartments, and do nothing about it, despite offers of assistance from community groups and the police?

    ...may the best legal businesses win!

  • PS I do love that google ads now has put a We Buy Jewelry ad on the top of this page :)

    Perhaps brooklynian will be suspected of causing the imminent downfall of Franklin Ave and be protested :)

  • Haha. Well said whynot.

  • Google ads send crawlers through pages that the ads are on... The present ads according to content.

  • "Google ads send crawlers through pages that the ads are on... The present ads according to content."

    yup. Kinda like how a where a business decides to open shop.

    ....if the business is wrong, and the place gets no business, it will move its establishment.

    ...if the google formula is wrong, and the ad gets no hits, it will place its ads elsewhere.

    But folks who don't sell jewelry should protest all they want, it keeps them distracted and lets them maintain a false sense of fear AND control. How many things allow people to delude themselves into believing that they can accomplish both at the same time?

    ...meanwhile, this business will either have enough people to buy its jewelry or not. It looks like it is a tough business to be in at the moment:

    http://thebrooklynink.com/2010/11/10/18826-high-price-of-gold-freezes-brooklyn-bling-trade/

    On the other hand, the place on Franklin just got free publicty in the Daily News! Who could ask for more!

  • Spoolie points out an irony that all of the community consternation has caused, that there is more publicity for the pawn shop proprietor. But it is actually far worse than that. The pawn shop proprietor is now a jewelry store proprietor, and as such what regulations governed pawn shop activity no longer governs how he chooses to operate his business. This means that if someone goes in to sell a gold chain, then there is no obligation that the owner identify the seller of the good. Would-be thieves therefore can go in and simply hawk their booty. Maybe I am wrong here, but that is my understanding of this new situation.

    What seems insincere about Spoolie's argument, and even Whynot's agnosticism here is that I doubt highly that either one of these guys would go into an establishment like the one on Park Place and buy their loved one a ring. They poo-poo public protest here as if it's misguided. What an irony! Community activity as misguided activity! And we aren't talking about a bongfest here, we're talking about people who live here who are attempting to make the very blocks they live on better places to live. You won't see an establishment like the one on Park Place in the Diamond District. Nobody buys jewelry from the back of a laundromat -- right beside a methadone clinic in the Diamond District. It's as insulting as buying booze through plexi-glass. And by the way, that's exactly what one will do at this new store...

    Spoolie refers to crime and the variables and elements that create it, yet he overlooks the involvement of pawnshops and 'jewelry-slash-electronic' stores as a vital component in this circle of crime and chaos. He recognizes that race by itself isn't an indicator of crime; he states that "...employment opportunities, availability of hard drugs, public education,[lack of] healthcare, [high]poverty rates [are the cause of crime]...the list goes on but believe me, pawn shops would be very low on the list. " Why should we believe him? He offers no reason to do so. Well, believe ME. I've lived in my share of ghettos, and unfortunately, slums, and in each and every one there has always been a pawnshop, or a 'jewelry-slash electronic' store.

    What do we have in this community? Unemployment, drugs (and the entrepreneurs who sell it), and as it regards poverty rates, I gander to say that the folks who are being kicked out of their homes for incoming hipsters and forced to double up with other folks are none too pleased, so ditto for poverty; and Spoolie says the list goes on. And, were we TO believe him, yep, at near the end of the list we would have pawnshops and electronic stores, and guess what? Now we have that too; so you can believe him good people.

  • MHA, You're not making a valid argument. You can look up FBI statistics for crime and tell me if I'm wrong. If you're implying that pawn shops cause as much crime as unemployment and as drug addiction, there are countless studies that prove that wrong. You're arguing against me for the sake of arguing. I'm sure that in the ghettos you've lived in, there were also bodegas and perhaps a supermarket. There was probably a pharmacy nearby too. Chances are you had a 99cent store too. My point is that you can't blame the crime on the shop itself. As far as it now being a jewelry store that doesn't have to take down names from sellers...whose fault is that? The only reason he changed his plans was because of the protests. So, you've made your neighborhood less safe. "You won't see an establishment like the one on Park Place in the Diamond District."???

    Stores in the Diamond District buy jewelry. Sorry to tell you, but you're way off base on this one. Oh, and my name is written right next to my comment. You would think you would be able to spell it right.

  • They poo-poo public protest here as if it's misguided. What an irony! Community activity as misguided activity! And we aren't talking about a bongfest here, we're talking about people who live here who are attempting to make the very blocks they live on better places to live.

    you're public protest(s) are misguided. and not all community activity is productive. yours comes to mind.

  • MHA- As you point out, so far the community protest against the jewelry store may have been counter productive.

    a. you have a mural you don't like, whereas before you only had a sign on the laundry.

    b. you have a business name you don't like, whereas before you had a name that didn't reference Crow Hill

    c. you have a sense of defeat, whereas before you believed you could make a difference

    d. you have given the place huge amounts of free publicity.

    At what point do you (and the few other people upset by this new We Buy Gold and Electronics jewelry store) declare yourselves to be victims of capitalism and move on to your next cause?

    ....or (in an attempt to claim victory) will you wait to see whether it goes out of business due to natural forces and then claim you were responsible?

  • Valid points.

    Based on MHA boycotting the laundromat it seems to me he is already aware that protest alone is not cutting it, but rather than giving up he has changed strategy. I don' t think it is possible for the majority of those who oppose this legal business, which attracts an increase in property crime and potential violent crime, to cure the ills of society and make the poor rich however a boycott has the potential to make the rich poor causing them to change their strategy as well perhaps for the better. Hit them where it hurts, the almighty dollar.